kitchen island outlet inside of cabinet, inspector says no, customer says yes

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Stevenfyeager

Senior Member
Location
United States, Indiana
Occupation
electrical contractor
My customer wants an outlet inside a cabinet on a kitchen island, no visible outlets desired. The inspector says we can install one but it doesn't meet requirements for an island, we still need to have a visible one. My customer wants to know the exact sentence in NEC. My inspector read 210 to me on the phone. What should I tell the customer? Thank you
 
Can you install one under the counter top?

Can you do a pop up receptacle?

Added: I can't find where the NEC says the island/peninsula receptacle can not be inside the cabinet. As long as you meet the exceptions measurement rules in 210.52(C)(5), i don't see any issue with it.
 
Last edited:
edward said:
Can you install one under the counter top?

Can you do a pop up receptacle?

Added: I can't find where the NEC says the island/peninsula receptacle can not be inside the cabinet. As long as you meet the exceptions measurement rules in 210.52(C)(5), i don't see any issue with it.
Click to expand...

According to the exception to (C)(5) you can only go no more than 12" below and that's if the overhang of the top isn't more than 6".

Exception to (5): To comply with the conditions specified in
(1) or (2), receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be
mounted not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop.
Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance
with this exception shall not be located where the
countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its
support base.
Click to expand...
 
Little Bill said:
According to the exception to (C)(5) you can only go no more than 12" below and that's if the overhang of the top isn't more than 6".
Click to expand...

But it does not say the receptacle has to to be on the surface of the cabinet. So as long as it is not more than 12" below the surface of the counter top, I think it is OK to be inside of the cabinet
 
The operative language is at the beginning of 210.52:

2011 NEC 210.52 said:
The receptacles required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:
. . .
(3) Located within cabinets or cupboards
Click to expand...

Cheers, Wayne
 
Stevenfyeager said:
So, according to 2011 NEC, 210.52 (3), another outlet is required besides one inside the island cabinet? Like the inspector told me? (here in Louisville, 2014 NEC is adopted)
Click to expand...
The inspector is correct.

Roger
 
I don't understand these homeowners who don't want receptacles. I once did a kitchen remodel where the lady didn't want ANY receptacles in the whole kitchen except for the fridge. Nuts, right? (No, they were not Amish.) Are receptacles that ugly? I personally think they are beautiful, but I get paid by the receptacle, so I might be a little biased. :roll:
 
Yes the receptacle can be inside the cabinet but there needs to be one that meets the req. in 210.52

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets. This section
provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle
outlets. The receptacles required by this section
shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:
(1) Part of a luminaire or appliance, or
(2) Controlled by a wall switch in accordance with
210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, or
(3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
(4) Located more than 1.7 m (51⁄2 ft) above the floor
Click to expand...

I just saw that Wayne already posted this....
 
480sparky said:
The cord you plug in is.
Click to expand...
I would think NEC wouldn't apply to the cord on a portable appliance, fixed appliance yes, with only certain exceptions like the dishwasher allowed to have receptacle in adjacent cabinet.

wwhitney said:
The operative language is at the beginning of 210.52:



Cheers, Wayne
Click to expand...
That is section the OP needs to cite to his client. Then inform them if inspection doesn't pass the inspector can prevent them from getting service from the utility or keep them from getting a certificate of occupancy which can lead to other issues like not being able to get insurance.
 
kwired said:
I would think NEC wouldn't apply to the cord on a portable appliance, fixed appliance yes, with only certain exceptions like the dishwasher allowed to have receptacle in adjacent cabinet..............
Click to expand...


Then I guess 90.1 isn't relevant to the issue.
 
480sparky said:
Then I guess 90.1 isn't relevant to the issue.
Click to expand...
I don't see how we are responsible for what the HO may plug into a receptacle.

I also don't see a cord for a non fixed appliance being considered premises wiring. They set a toaster on that countger and plug it into a 75 foot extension cord and run it all the way to the bedroom and that isn't our problem as the installer if we supplied receptacles that are in accordance with 210.52.
 
Coppersmith said:
I don't understand these homeowners who don't want receptacles. I once did a kitchen remodel where the lady didn't want ANY receptacles in the whole kitchen except for the fridge. Nuts, right? (No, they were not Amish.) Are receptacles that ugly? I personally think they are beautiful, but I get paid by the receptacle, so I might be a little biased. :roll:
Click to expand...

My friend's first wife, an interior decorator, was like this. She wanted her kitchen to appear to NOT be wired for anything electrical. My friend had a pop-up appliance garage installed in the island counter. So when she wanted to use an appliance, she hit a hidden button and a rather large section of the counter rose up out of the middle, containing her small appliances and the receptacles for them. That thing must have cost him a fortune... Here's a link if you've never seen one. https://www.firgelliauto.com/blogs/news/kitchen-appliance-garage

She also had white "subway tiles" for her backsplash and the few receptacles she had (by code of course) had solid covers over them that matched the tiles, distinguishable only by virtue of their being slightly raised over the rest of the tiles. To use the receptacles, you pressed the covers and they lifted up (oriented sideways). I had never seen those before and my friend said he had them made. Looked kind of like this from Ikea, only rectangular and hinged at the top.
kitchen-island-electrical-outlet-ideas-2-secret-hidden-compartment-bathroom-tile-600-x-440.jpg
Again, $$$ I'm sure, but at the time he was making about $300k/year.

She was very cute, but Lord, that woman knew how to spend his money... :happysad: She eventually divorced him (and married a surgeon). After a tax audit a year later, his accountant that went over his books said that there was almost $2 million "missing", meaning he made the money, but his assets, as defined in the divorce decree, didn't reflect it. But given that she and her lawyer didn't come after him for it, that must have indicated that she already knew where it was... :cry:
 
kwired said:
I don't see how we are responsible for what the HO may plug into a receptacle.

I also don't see a cord for a non fixed appliance being considered premises wiring. They set a toaster on that countger and plug it into a 75 foot extension cord and run it all the way to the bedroom and that isn't our problem as the installer if we supplied receptacles that are in accordance with 210.52.
Click to expand...

And you don't see 'it'?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top