kitchen outlet placement
- Thread starter gimpyfac
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a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: kitchen outlet placement
I had a simular situation last year.A condo complex with a kitchen that had a pass thru into dining area adjascent walls were 4 ft from the sink on both sides and the overhang was 14 in. into dining area.I met with the inspector info inspection to show him what we had to deal with.He looked and scratched his head.There was no way to be code compliant.He allowed me to be 4 ft from the sink,I asked if he wanted receptacles in the cabinets behind doors and he said it was not necessary.
So try that ask the guyt that makes the descision!!!!!
I had a simular situation last year.A condo complex with a kitchen that had a pass thru into dining area adjascent walls were 4 ft from the sink on both sides and the overhang was 14 in. into dining area.I met with the inspector info inspection to show him what we had to deal with.He looked and scratched his head.There was no way to be code compliant.He allowed me to be 4 ft from the sink,I asked if he wanted receptacles in the cabinets behind doors and he said it was not necessary.
So try that ask the guyt that makes the descision!!!!!bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: kitchen outlet placement
I think Wiremold on the underside of the Countertop within 6 inches of the edge would comply per 210.52(C)(5)exception. (or at least with the intent)
Inspectors?
Bill
I think Wiremold on the underside of the Countertop within 6 inches of the edge would comply per 210.52(C)(5)exception. (or at least with the intent)
Inspectors?
Bill
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a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: kitchen outlet placement
14 in overhang kills that idea..
14 in overhang kills that idea..
bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: kitchen outlet placement
I don't remember the original thought process when reading that section, and can't seem to come up with a good defense for my prior statement. I was thinking the idea was that the receptacle not be back more than 6 inches from the edge, not that there shouldn't be one there at all, and obviously reading into it a bit.
So, unless some good corroboration comes along I've got to concede this one.
Bill
It does seem so ....
I don't remember the original thought process when reading that section, and can't seem to come up with a good defense for my prior statement. I was thinking the idea was that the receptacle not be back more than 6 inches from the edge, not that there shouldn't be one there at all, and obviously reading into it a bit.
So, unless some good corroboration comes along I've got to concede this one.
Bill
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: kitchen outlet placement
This seems to be an Island or a peninsula.
At least one receptacle would be required for either one. If it,s a wall to wall counter, it would have to comply with the 2ft 4ft rule.
I feel that the kitchen lay out of the counters should be done so that the code can be complied with. A surface mounted outlet(s) may not be appealing, but you have to have the receptacle(s) installed to code. I see no reason why the inspector should require less.
This seems to be an Island or a peninsula.
At least one receptacle would be required for either one. If it,s a wall to wall counter, it would have to comply with the 2ft 4ft rule.
I feel that the kitchen lay out of the counters should be done so that the code can be complied with. A surface mounted outlet(s) may not be appealing, but you have to have the receptacle(s) installed to code. I see no reason why the inspector should require less.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: kitchen outlet placement
If it is a Island or a peninsula, code only requires one outlet which could be mounted on the end of it. we been having the cabinet makers make a step up just behind the sink for the bar area and mount our receptacles side ways in this step. But if none of this can be achieved then the cabinet makers can make a tomb stone that matches the counter top to mount the receptacle in. of course the home owner wont like it but then it's not our design that created this problem. But I have used plug mold to also comply too. and as long as it is within 6" from the front edge of the counter top I can't see a problem.
If it is a Island or a peninsula, code only requires one outlet which could be mounted on the end of it. we been having the cabinet makers make a step up just behind the sink for the bar area and mount our receptacles side ways in this step. But if none of this can be achieved then the cabinet makers can make a tomb stone that matches the counter top to mount the receptacle in. of course the home owner wont like it but then it's not our design that created this problem. But I have used plug mold to also comply too. and as long as it is within 6" from the front edge of the counter top I can't see a problem.
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: kitchen outlet placement
After rereading 250 52, I have to agree that a receptacle mounted under the ledge of the counter within 6 ins. of the edge would make it code compliant.Since it is located no more than 6 in from the support base.
After rereading 250 52, I have to agree that a receptacle mounted under the ledge of the counter within 6 ins. of the edge would make it code compliant.Since it is located no more than 6 in from the support base.
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: kitchen outlet placement
210.552(C)(5)Receptacle Outlet Location
Exception:
Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the counter top extends more than 150mm (6 in.) beyond its support base.
It doesn't matter how close to the edge of the overhang you get the receptacle. If the overhang is 6 inches or more a receptacle can not be installed under it.
[ March 14, 2004, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: russ ]
210.552(C)(5)Receptacle Outlet Location
Exception:
Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the counter top extends more than 150mm (6 in.) beyond its support base.
It doesn't matter how close to the edge of the overhang you get the receptacle. If the overhang is 6 inches or more a receptacle can not be installed under it.
[ March 14, 2004, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: russ ]
Re: kitchen outlet placement
This is a open counter with cabinets under them. This area is about 16 ft. long, center of this is a sink, each side of sink is open counter no back splash, back side overhang is aprox. 14 in. front is flush with cabinets. This is not an island. No overhead cabinets, area opens to dining/family room area.Left side of sink,aprox. 5 ft. is end cabinet, walk threw area to kitchen. Right side of sink approximately 5ft.to wall with top and base cabinets aprox. 12 ft. along the wall. Can outlets be cut in the front of cabinets? Does this meet code? Plug mold could be used, but I' am not sure it meets code. I thought outlets had to be above and within 20 in. of counter top.
This is a open counter with cabinets under them. This area is about 16 ft. long, center of this is a sink, each side of sink is open counter no back splash, back side overhang is aprox. 14 in. front is flush with cabinets. This is not an island. No overhead cabinets, area opens to dining/family room area.Left side of sink,aprox. 5 ft. is end cabinet, walk threw area to kitchen. Right side of sink approximately 5ft.to wall with top and base cabinets aprox. 12 ft. along the wall. Can outlets be cut in the front of cabinets? Does this meet code? Plug mold could be used, but I' am not sure it meets code. I thought outlets had to be above and within 20 in. of counter top.
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: kitchen outlet placement
gimpyfac,
Don't you have a code book?
Island or peninsular.....same requirement.
gimpyfac,
Don't you have a code book?
Island or peninsular.....same requirement.
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: kitchen outlet placement
You have one peninsula. I think I would have to consider you having two counter spaces, that are separated by the sink. Each space is required to have an receptacle outlet. I feel your trying to justify not installing the receptacles. By code there is no reason the inspector should allow it.
This setup, at the least, is poor planning.
You have one peninsula. I think I would have to consider you having two counter spaces, that are separated by the sink. Each space is required to have an receptacle outlet. I feel your trying to justify not installing the receptacles. By code there is no reason the inspector should allow it.
This setup, at the least, is poor planning.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: kitchen outlet placement
I sure hope we do not get to that point.
So the design of a persons home should be dictated by the NEC?
I sure hope we do not get to that point.
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: kitchen outlet placement
There are specific electrical code requirements. Receptacles are only one of them, and they have to be considered when designing a home
There are specific electrical code requirements. Receptacles are only one of them, and they have to be considered when designing a home
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: kitchen outlet placement
Bob while I feel the NEC shouldn't dictate the design of a home ether but there are some mechanical that has to be design into a home to allow for certain installations look at the requirement for access panels for whirlpool tubs, panel space ETC... and it's not just electricians that have this problem as it's all the trades that have to have a design that they can install to, to meet code.
Bob while I feel the NEC shouldn't dictate the design of a home ether but there are some mechanical that has to be design into a home to allow for certain installations look at the requirement for access panels for whirlpool tubs, panel space ETC... and it's not just electricians that have this problem as it's all the trades that have to have a design that they can install to, to meet code.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: kitchen outlet placement
Russ As far as having a plug strip under a overhang thats over the required 6" first in this case this wouldn't be the issue as nobody would have this in front of the sink. But if I was the inspector and somone were to do this I would think the intent of the code was met as the requirment is so the shorter cords on kitchen appliance's can reach the receptacles. The only thing that could be said in this type of installation would be the fact that bar stools could run into the cord/plug and damage it. But that would be a tuff call.
Russ As far as having a plug strip under a overhang thats over the required 6" first in this case this wouldn't be the issue as nobody would have this in front of the sink. But if I was the inspector and somone were to do this I would think the intent of the code was met as the requirment is so the shorter cords on kitchen appliance's can reach the receptacles. The only thing that could be said in this type of installation would be the fact that bar stools could run into the cord/plug and damage it. But that would be a tuff call.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: kitchen outlet placement
My thinking is we install electrical systems to fit a house.
I do not think the NEC intends a house to be built around an electrical system.
My thinking is we install electrical systems to fit a house.
I do not think the NEC intends a house to be built around an electrical system.
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: kitchen outlet placement
Wayne:
I would have trouble approving a receptacle under the overhang that's more than the code allowed 6 inches. This area is probably designed for seating. I think the intent of the code is to keep people from getting caught on the hanging cords.
The code is clear to me that if the overhang is more than 6 inches, no receptacle allowed.
There are no notes added to the exception, saying you can install a receptacle under a overhang if you get it this, or that close to the edge.
Wayne:
I would have trouble approving a receptacle under the overhang that's more than the code allowed 6 inches. This area is probably designed for seating. I think the intent of the code is to keep people from getting caught on the hanging cords.
The code is clear to me that if the overhang is more than 6 inches, no receptacle allowed.
There are no notes added to the exception, saying you can install a receptacle under a overhang if you get it this, or that close to the edge.
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