Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

[luke warmwater]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Originally posted by mtn_elec:
Sorry guys, but weren't you suppouse to answer my question if Bx was good for wiring an island?lol

Man, you've got no idea how we can hijack a thread 'round here.
It can get hijacked full circle.

Sam,
last time I was in San Fran, I stayed in the heart of China Town. What a place.
I miss the fresh sour dough bread.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Now to make you scratch your head and wonder if I'm nuts...

I'm not saying that it would always be wet, I'm just referring to the requirement in 300.5(D)(5). I am not aware of any NM that is listed for a wet location.

But is a conduit encased in a slab underground?

 

[drg]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

ENT (smurf) is not allowed to protect when subject to physical damage.

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Sometimes I forget about all the good things about here.

Edit: I figure you've all seen the bribge.

[ January 14, 2005, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

By George:

But is a conduit encased in a slab underground?

Check out 230.6(2), That's services of course.

Edit: and take a look in Article 100 for some insight into concrete and it's location type(s). Article 100 is underrated.

[ January 15, 2005, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Man, you've got no idea how we can hijack a thread 'round here.

TY, I really didn't catch that first time around.

Edit: Isn't it "Noyf Joyzy"? Wha cun I say, I'm paat Pizzan.

[ January 15, 2005, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

mtn_elec,

By Bx, I assume you mean AC, that is Armored Cable. I think 320.15 and 320.24 are the most pertinent references for your consideration.

To me, the answer you will settle on is driven entirely by the construction of the cabinetry that you have to mount the electrical in, and the specific electrical things that are being installed in that cabinet. . .not the type of cable.

As a general statement, for me, the plinth area (inside the toekick and under the cabinet bottom) is a chase. . .I can bring cables or raceway through the floor and offset through the plinth area and then rise through the cabinet floor in order to stay behind the pulls. In my experience, the area behind the pulls is accepted as "protected".

Other times, I'll rise into the open cabinet under the range or sink or whatever. . .the cabinet space behind doors that only has shelves. . .and I'll set a J-box back there and run cables high, preferably before the countertop is installed, in order to keep the cables in a "protected" area. The riser that goes to the J-box will have to have mechanical protection to withstand the bumps from the cookie sheets, etc.

Personally, I find that sleeving NM with metal flex for physical protection, where exposed to cookie sheets, etc., and then using exposed NM in the "protected" cabinet spaces, is the most common solution I arrive at.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Originally posted by physis:
Edit: and take a look in Article 100 for some insight into concrete and it's location type(s). Article 100 is underrated.

Amen. I stand corrected.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
...and then using exposed NM in the "protected" cabinet spaces, is the most common solution I arrive at.

Do you clip your staples with dykes?

I always flex. I hadn't even considered running NM exposed behind drawers. Have you encountered an AHJ stating that the drawers can be pulled out and expose the NM to damage, or something along those lines?

Your way makes sense, but it makes me uneasy to try.

[ January 15, 2005, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

George,

Like I said, I like getting the island wired before the countertop goes down. I can usually make good use of the cabinet frame at the top of the panels to attach NM. ?" of face panel and ?" of frame will give me the 1?" plus of clearance for 300.4.

I have cut off the nails for strapping on the underside of uppers for the little stub of NM that is exposed from the backsplash to the UC luminaire, but quickly started stocking a selection on #4 flat head sheet metal screws. I pull the nails from the strap, using screws instead.

In all my years, I've never had NM inside a cabinet behind or beside a drawer called out by an inspector.

Edit typo - Al

[ January 15, 2005, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

You're to willing to learn stuff George. It's almost no fun to send you to Article 100. I'd be complaining all the way.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Hey, that is one clear definition. Whoever wrote that needs to get into your favorite CMP and clean house!

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Originally posted by al hildenbrand:
In all my years, I've never had NM inside a cabinet behind or beside a drawer called out by an inspector.

Well now I have.

I had some people come over to trim a sixplex, and I told them, "Hey, what the heck, give it a shot, save some time."

The inspector called it. When I asked why, he said that when the drawers are full of junk (as my kitchen drawers are), then there is a potential of the romex getting damaged by those items.

I couldn't argue that--I hadn't thought of it.

I'll finish flexing them this morning.

 

[mtn_elec]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

Sorry to hear that but we all learn from thoses experiences, thanks

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Kitchen Receptacles in Island?

All conduit installed under a slab is considered a wet location and all conductors will be rated for same.
We set a 3 gang j box behind fridge easiest point to find when under slabbed.Alot of islands have gfci,d/w,disposal and gen purpose circuit,thats a min of 4 uf wires in a pipe.So we use 1 in min.
Unless you want to change to thwn