jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Can a receptacle at a kitchen counter also cover wall space next to it.Meaning can i cover a wall spce within 6 feet of that receptacle on counter or does it require a seperate receptacle ?
kitchen receptacles
- Thread starter jimwalker
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: kitchen receptacles
Good CallOriginally posted by physis:
I'll get the popcorn.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: kitchen receptacles
Hmm. Looks like a good place to party.
How about this:
Hmm. Looks like a good place to party.
How about this:
Since the side of the cabinet at the end of the kitchen contitutes a "wall", then the wall space receptacle couldn't be behind that wall, could it?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: kitchen receptacles
Ah, but this is not a free-standing bar-type counter. It is a kitchen counter.
I'm generally not a gambling man, but sometimes I can be reckelss
So here I go being reckless: I predict, without having gone through the bother of opening the code book, that this discussion will show that the answer is "no."
Ah, but this is not a free-standing bar-type counter. It is a kitchen counter.
I'm generally not a gambling man, but sometimes I can be reckelss
So here I go being reckless: I predict, without having gone through the bother of opening the code book, that this discussion will show that the answer is "no."
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: kitchen receptacles
Maybe i didn't make it clear enough.What i have is a wall space of about 40 inches between a pocket door and kitchen counter.T counter has a receptacle about 12 inches from right side of this counter.I would like to say this counter receptacle serves both the counter and the wall .Am i right or wrong ? If right i know it wont say so in nec but if wrong should.So is there a number it violates ?
Maybe i didn't make it clear enough.What i have is a wall space of about 40 inches between a pocket door and kitchen counter.T counter has a receptacle about 12 inches from right side of this counter.I would like to say this counter receptacle serves both the counter and the wall .Am i right or wrong ? If right i know it wont say so in nec but if wrong should.So is there a number it violates ?
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: kitchen receptacles
How say ye one, how say ye all?
Edited to add:
[ August 23, 2005, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
Based on the findings in the 2005 cycle of the NEC I will say that as long as the receptacle is no higher than 5 ? ft from the floor and not part of a wall that is broken by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings and not beyond the perimeters of such things such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings nor separated by rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks and are part of the circuits being installed with the appropriate section of the code then every thing is cool.
How say ye one, how say ye all?
Edited to add:
As pointed out above these circuits are allowed to be installed to cover all this area.
[ August 23, 2005, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: kitchen receptacles
In regards to the previous post by JW I vote in the affirmative. Pass the popcorn.
Disclaimer I did not look in the book.
In regards to the previous post by JW I vote in the affirmative. Pass the popcorn.
Disclaimer I did not look in the book.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: kitchen receptacles
"They" haven't spent much time in this forum.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: kitchen receptacles
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: kitchen receptacles
Man. I've looked at this long and far (without opening my book since), and I'm out of ammo.
Yeah, the outlet on the counter can serve floor space. Looks like I can quit putting that one in.
Man. I've looked at this long and far (without opening my book since), and I'm out of ammo.
Yeah, the outlet on the counter can serve floor space. Looks like I can quit putting that one in.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: kitchen receptacles
There has been too much discussion in favor of "yes," and we need to change that.
There has been too much discussion in favor of "yes," and we need to change that.
physis
Senior Member
Re: kitchen receptacles
I knew it, all that reckless mumbo jumbo was just that.
Well I aready saw that angle and looked at it from both positions, trying to make it work and trying make it fail.
210.52(A)(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
There are two separate ideas. wall space, being measured along the floor line, and any point of the wall space (being measured along the floor line) also haveing a receptacle within 6 ft.
Let me goof with that a little more. 210.52(C)(1) is called "wall counter space".
I would actully suggest the opposite to be the case. That instead of a receptacle having to be aligned within some wall space, that it could actually be in another room.
Where is it said that the measurement, from a position on a wall space, to a receptacle, must be unobstructed? A receptacle in another room can still be within 6 ft.
How bout a receptacle on an outside wall, could it be within 6 ft?
I knew it, all that reckless mumbo jumbo was just that.
Well I aready saw that angle and looked at it from both positions, trying to make it work and trying make it fail.
Indeed this correct. The trouble is that you forgot to go back and look at 210.52(A)(1) again to see how it applies while keeping this in mind.
210.52(A)(1) Spacing. Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more than 1.8 m (6 ft) from a receptacle outlet.
There are two separate ideas. wall space, being measured along the floor line, and any point of the wall space (being measured along the floor line) also haveing a receptacle within 6 ft.
Let me goof with that a little more. 210.52(C)(1) is called "wall counter space".
I would actully suggest the opposite to be the case. That instead of a receptacle having to be aligned within some wall space, that it could actually be in another room.
Where is it said that the measurement, from a position on a wall space, to a receptacle, must be unobstructed? A receptacle in another room can still be within 6 ft.
How bout a receptacle on an outside wall, could it be within 6 ft?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: kitchen receptacles
Sam, I am running out of Popcorn, can you help me out?
Sam, I am running out of Popcorn, can you help me out?
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: kitchen receptacles
It will work but the cord hanging down is going to be ugly.
It will work but the cord hanging down is going to be ugly.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: kitchen receptacles
Sam, the "reckless" part was making a prediction that was in opposition to the opinions voiced earlier in the thread, and doing it without the aid of the book. Since then, I read the book, and I stand by my earlier predictions.
As to the receptacle on the other side of a wall counting as being within six feet, I'll give you credit for a valiant effort. But once you have broken the line of the wall with a doorway (or, as I believe, a kitchen counter), the next time you encounter a wall (in the same room, in the next room, or outdoors), you have to decide (separately) whether that next wall needs one or more receptacles of its own.
The "Wall Counter Space" addressed in 210.52(C)(1) is the wall behind the counter. That wall area (I did not say "wall space") needs receptacles of its own. You don't get to take credit for a receptacle near the floor as being one of the required SA receptacles that serve counter-top appliances.
It's almost time for me to think about heading home. So I'll pass on the popcorn, and instead pay a call on my buddy "Mark." If you haven't met Mark, then perhaps you know his cousins Jack and Jim.
Sam, the "reckless" part was making a prediction that was in opposition to the opinions voiced earlier in the thread, and doing it without the aid of the book. Since then, I read the book, and I stand by my earlier predictions.
As to the receptacle on the other side of a wall counting as being within six feet, I'll give you credit for a valiant effort. But once you have broken the line of the wall with a doorway (or, as I believe, a kitchen counter), the next time you encounter a wall (in the same room, in the next room, or outdoors), you have to decide (separately) whether that next wall needs one or more receptacles of its own.
The "Wall Counter Space" addressed in 210.52(C)(1) is the wall behind the counter. That wall area (I did not say "wall space") needs receptacles of its own. You don't get to take credit for a receptacle near the floor as being one of the required SA receptacles that serve counter-top appliances.
It's almost time for me to think about heading home. So I'll pass on the popcorn, and instead pay a call on my buddy "Mark." If you haven't met Mark, then perhaps you know his cousins Jack and Jim.
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