Kitchen Remodel Junction Boxes

[mkgrady]

I'm wiring a new kitchen where the existing was removed along with three of the four walls. The new kitchen will be much bigger. I'm done with the demo and I have a large amount of cables that ran down through the removed walls and cables that run into parts of the home that are not being demoed.

I need to splice some of these existing cables in the new ceiling to reconnect some of the circuits. I also need to dead end some of the cables in the ceiling. I do not want to have any junction boxes with blank plates on the ceiling.

The new kitchen ceiling will have numerous recess and pendant light fixtures. Most, if not all of the existing cables will reach either a fixture outlet box or a recess housing box. My concern is that the existing wires are the old original romex. It has the cloth/tar jacket, paper covering the insulation and ground wire and what I assume is TW insulation.

My concern is that many modern fixtures require the cables feeding the fixture to be rated 90 degrees. Of course I will use 90 degree cables (NM-B) to feed all new fixtures but I'm wondering if that temperature rating also applies to other cables in the junction box?

My other thought was that maybe I could make splices and/or dead ends in junction boxes that would be accessable by removing the recess housings. Would these boxes be considered accessible?

Mike

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

is there no attic above ?

 

[wirebender]

.

My other thought was that maybe I could make splices and/or dead ends in junction boxes that would be accessable by removing the recess housings. Would these boxes be considered accessible?

Mike

IMO they would be accessible.

 

[mkgrady]

is there no attic above ?

Nope, the area above is a finished room.

 

[480sparky]

Instead of using the can light boxes, install a 4-sq box on the joist right next to the can light. Still as accessible, but you don't have to worry about temp ratings.

 

[mkgrady]

IMO they would be accessible.

Come to think of it, if boxes within reach of a recessed can were not accessible then how would the recess JB be accessable?

 

[guschash]

Article 100 Accessible ( as applied to wiring methods ). Capable of being removed .... I think it is ok.

 

[480sparky]

Come to think of it, if boxes within reach of a recessed can were not accessible then how would the recess JB be accessable?

You remove the three screws holding the can to the frame and push it out of the way.

 

[mkgrady]

You remove the three screws holding the can to the frame and push it out of the way.

Yeah, I get that, I was just agreeing that it makes my additional boxes accessable because you can do just what you say

 

[220/221]

You remove the three screws holding the can to the frame and push it out of the way.

And hope that the wiring is long enough.

We do tons of kitchens and I always try to land thing somewhere smart. An occaisional box may end up "accessible" via a can hole but it's not a great idea for future troubleshooting.


Also, although it is not to code, I leave the box loose and the cables long enough to pull down thru the hole.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

Also, although it is not to code, I leave the box loose and the cables long enough to pull down thru the hole.

That's what I would do.

 

[mkgrady]

And hope that the wiring is long enough.

Also, although it is not to code, I leave the box loose and the cables long enough to pull down thru the hole.

I like that idea. I wonder if the inspector would object to this (not fastening the box). Seeems like there should be a way to fasted the box but be able to yank it loose if it were ever neede to be looked at for troubleshooting.

 

[Paul B]

Well maybe it is a stretch but you could leave some length of cable and still staple with a foot of the box.

 

[iaov]

I don't like the idea of a loose J-box. For trouble shooting?? If you put connections together properly in a J-box ( pre-twist and wire nut, not so tight that you break the wires) those connections will probably last longer than the house. I've taken J-boxes apart that were 40-50 years old and the connections looked like they were made yesterday. Take the time and make the connections right. You will never need to look at them again.

 

[mkgrady]

I don't like the idea of a loose J-box. For trouble shooting?? If you put connections together properly in a J-box ( pre-twist and wire nut, not so tight that you break the wires) those connections will probably last longer than the house. I've taken J-boxes apart that were 40-50 years old and the connections looked like they were made yesterday. Take the time and make the connections right. You will never need to look at them again.

I agree with you. The likelyhood of needing to troubleshoot properly made splices is near zero. My point is more that some day an electrician may want to look inside those boxes and if he does he will be glad they are not screwded to a beam.

So what don't you like about a loose JB? I know it doesn't meet code but I'm wondering why it is a problem.

 

[celtic]

If you put connections together properly in a J-box ( pre-twist and wire nut, not so tight that you break the wires) those connections will probably last longer than the house.
Take the time and make the connections right. You will never need to look at them again.

You might want to look at some of yours again...or least the box the wire nuts came in. :roll:

 

[iaov]

I agree with you. The likelyhood of needing to troubleshoot properly made splices is near zero. My point is more that some day an electrician may want to look inside those boxes and if he does he will be glad they are not screwded to a beam.

So what don't you like about a loose JB? I know it doesn't meet code but I'm wondering why it is a problem.

Code violation but more than that my sense of aesthetics.:smile:

 

[electricmanscott]

I've left boxes loose and I've secured them so that they are accesible from the can. I'm of the you gotta do what you gotta do school of thought.

For the wire being dead ended I tape them up and leave them in the ceiling.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I really don't understand the need for the temp rating in the jb of a recessed can that is a few inches away from the can itself. I have opened jb's on recessed cans after they have been on for hours and there was no discernible heat to me. Just curious-- is this another CYA thing?

 

[mkgrady]

I really don't understand the need for the temp rating in the jb of a recessed can that is a few inches away from the can itself. I have opened jb's on recessed cans after they have been on for hours and there was no discernible heat to me. Just curious-- is this another CYA thing?

I agree the wires running to the housing JB don't get, hot but I still don't know if I can legally use it as a JB because of the warning label to use 90 degree supply conductors. Maybe that is just for the factory wires that go from the JB to the can.