Kitchen small appliance circuits.

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jxofaltrds said:
I can put the refrigerator on one circuit. Why couldn't I put the disposal on the other circuit?
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We don't need to look at the handbook. We know we can put the fridge on an SA circuit (or to be more precise, we can put a receptacle outlet behind the fridge with the intent that the fridge will be plugged into it, and that receptacle outlet can be on an SA circuit) because 210.52(B)(1) says we can. On the other hand, we cannot put the receptacle outlet (or the hard wired outlet) that will serve the disposal on an SA circuit because 210.52(B)(2) says we can't.
 
charlie b said:
We don't need to look at the handbook. We know we can put the fridge on an SA circuit (or to be more precise, we can put a receptacle outlet behind the fridge with the intent that the fridge will be plugged into it, and that receptacle outlet can be on an SA circuit) because 210.52(B)(1) says we can. On the other hand, we cannot put the receptacle outlet (or the hard wired outlet) that will serve the disposal on an SA circuit because 210.52(B)(2) says we can't.
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I have read the commentary in 210.52(B)(1) and would have to agree with you.

And rereading 210.52(B)(1) is(are) the outlet(s) for the dishwasher and disposal wall outlets?

Shouldn't these be 20amp circuits?
 
jxofaltrds said:
For some reason I could not edit this post.
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I do not know what restrictions apply to who can edit a post at what point in time. It may be that after someone else posts a reply you cannot edit your own anymore. Sorry.
jxofaltrds said:
Should have said non-continuous load.
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Wouldn't have changed the situation. This isn't about how much load you can put on a circuit, but which specific receptacle outlets you can put on an SA circuit.
 
Kitchen small appliance circuits

Kitchen small appliance circuits

Jljohnson said:
I'll go 1st on the challenge. 210.52b1 states that " the 2 or more samll appliance circuits required by 210.11c1 shall serve all wall and floor receptacles covered by 210.52a, all countertop outlets covered by 210.52c, and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment."

The waste disposal (even cord and plug connected to a wall receptacle in the cabinet) is not covered in 210.11c1, 21052a, or 21052c so may not be connected to the SABC's.
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Jim/Charlie, sorry to beat a dead horse, but, the codes you quoted do not specifically mention waste disposers however they also do not specifically mention microwaves or coffee pots which can be fixed in place (or not) and they are permitted to be plugged into SA circuits. I'm just not understanding the logic behind allowing a microwave or coffee pot being plugged in to an SA circuit and not a disposer.:confused:
 
Nope


210.52(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop
outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for
refrigeration equipment.
(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.
 
foolishly trying again....
210.52(B)(1) states ..."serves all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A)(1)" and 210.52(C)"counterTOP outlets".
The disposal, even if it is served by a receptacle outlet, is not served by the ones noted in 210.52(A)(1) nor can it be serviced by a Countertop outlet (210.52)(C) so it doesn't meet the restriction in 210.52(B)(2) that says the S/SA circuit can serve ONLY those outlets coved in (B)(1)
 
charlie b said:
I think not. They do not serve any "wall spaces," as that phrase is explained in 210.52(A)(2).
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Charlie, if a microwave is built in does this mean a separate circuit would also be required and could not be put on the SA circuit because it's receptacle does not serve open wall space ?:confused:
 
For those of you gentelman who continiueto have that question in mind.
Please read this section again and slowly:

210.52(B)(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.
Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical
supply to and support of an electric clock in any of
the rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).
Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power
for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired
ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.
 
augie47 said:
foolishly trying again....
210.52(B)(1) states ..."serves all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A)(1)" and 210.52(C)"counterTOP outlets".
The disposal, even if it is served by a receptacle outlet, is not served by the ones noted in 210.52(A)(1) nor can it be serviced by a Countertop outlet (210.52)(C) so it doesn't meet the restriction in 210.52(B)(2) that says the S/SA circuit can serve ONLY those outlets coved in (B)(1)
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Gus, at the risk of trying your patience and ruining our friendship, doesn't the phrase "ALL wall and floor receptacle outlets" ....include the one below the sink ? It doesn't specifically state what appliances(utilization equipment) can be plugged into these outlets.
 
ARF said:
Charlie, if a microwave is built in does this mean a separate circuit would also be required and could not be put on the SA circuit because it's receptacle does not serve open wall space ?:confused:
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Chances are the micro instructions will spec a seperate 15 amp circuit so 210.52 whatever won't matter but 110.3(B) will.
 
LarryFine said:
Hey, my built-in microwave has a clock! ;)
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No, your clock has a built-in microwave.
microwave_smiley.gif
 
ARF said:
Gus, at the risk of trying your patience and ruining our friendship, doesn't the phrase "ALL wall and floor receptacle outlets" ....include the one below the sink ? It doesn't specifically state what appliances(utilization equipment) can be plugged into these outlets.
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No problem...we all have opinions...and IMHO, if one is palced in the cabinet under the counter it is not one of the outlets rquired by 210.52(A) in fact if you look at the 1st pargraph of 210.52(A) it states the required outlets are ones that are not located in cabinets.
 
augie47 said:
No problem...we all have opinions...and IMHO, if one is palced in the cabinet under the counter it is not one of the outlets rquired by 210.52(A) in fact if you look at the 1st pargraph of 210.52(A) it states the required outlets are ones that are not located in cabinets.
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As Augie has just mentioned, it is not a wall receptacle, it is a receptacle in the cabinet.;)
 
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