Know it all customer!!

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Re: Know it all customer!!

when i was contracting, i considered shopping bids unethical. Shopping bids is not competitive bidding. I didn't feel that way or think too much about it until i did it and realized the position it put me in and how I felt. After that, if I found my bids being shopped, I never bid that contractor again. I told as many other subs and contractors that I knew about the shopper and was never bothered by any remorse over "lost" work. I avoided working with anyone that I knew was picking up shopped bids. The more unethical seemed to slowly sink lower.

there is an old saying, "what goes around, comes around"

this is not being haughty or "righteous", I just didn't want to have to watch my back all the time, remember what lies I told, or who was in or out. Honesty was just the easier path.

paul
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Moral of the story,People who think others are trying to beat them are that way because they beat everyone they can.By going to others,call it bid shopping I see it.Plain and simple she will spit up in the air and get hit in the face.Mr. diy read # 8 is 40 amps in nm,so he runs 250 ft and expects that it will carry 40 amps.That guy at the big orange didn`t hack it in our world so he found another where he is the knowledgable one.I believe that these companies should be liable for the info they give to the public.IMHO they shouldn`t be allowed to give advise.By doing so gives the public the false sensce that hey I can do this myself!So when the wire he wants to connect to is short,Flying splice it The guy at HD didn`t say I can`t.. :roll:
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Nm was just a exampile,ROGER stay back LOL :D
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Allen, you haven't been doing any 12 ounce curls have you?

:D

Roger
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

I know this is off the original topic, but...

Why does the "big orange" keep coming up? They are at least trying to tell their customers how to properly use the products they sell.

Does your local/national supply house do this?

Or does your supplier refuse service to the general public?

Brent
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

I know this is off the original topic, but...

Why does the "big orange" keep coming up? They are at least trying to tell their customers how to properly use the products they sell.

Actually, it is not "Big Orange" policy. If a department associate is telling people how to do electrical work, or quoting Code, it is against company policy.


Does your local/national supply house do this?

No.

Or does your supplier refuse service to the general public?

No, but I know that they get frustrated with DIYers, and would prefer not to deal with them.
My supplier will flat out tell someone, "you're the electrician, tell me what you're looking for"
A DIYer will also pay alot more for materials at my supplier.


edited to fix bold type

[ June 04, 2004, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: luke warmwater ]
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

next time someone wants a bid....ask what they want,,,then work up the material cost, labor, add the two together,,,,,quote them a price for said job.....mention that the material and labor, and design of job meets or excedes NEC requirements, and any local codes......u dont owe them any education for they can run to some local Handy Man(not knocking the handy man) and get them to do all the heavy for 1/3 of cost on labor, while they go and pick up supplies..and not to mention, all the corner cutting (all the safety issues because they make no sense so why bother!) heck, while they are at it, maybe this lady in question can pick up some 16ga extension cords, and miss wire those and plug them into the alum. pontoon boats and really fix the party///i get so darn mad when they call u, ask for a price on something,,,then start telling u,,,my cousin in so and so said all u need is this or that,,,,heck, walk away....
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Or does your supplier refuse service to the general public?

"No, but I know that they get frustrated with DIYers, and would prefer not to deal with them.
My supplier will flat out tell someone, "you're the electrician, tell me what you're looking for"
A DIYer will also pay alot more for materials at my supplier."

No wonder the DIYers go elsewhere. And what makes the counter guy at the wholesale house smarter than the Home Depot guy? Cat #'s are just that.
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Who said the counter guys were smarter than the home depot guys. I think he just means the counter guys get sick of hearing " Gimmie a one of those thingys"

Brent HD and DIYers are ruining are trade. I am still all for a restriction an electrical supplies to licensed contractors
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

When to just say no. "I'll buy the materials to save money". No way. I supply materials. To many ways for this to go bad and inevitably you will need some stuff you left off the list maybe you will have it in the truck or maybe you have to go get it, or perhaps they will buy the cheapest junk they can find that will be harder to install and break down in a month. At this point all they will remember is who was the electrician and when is he coming back to fix his mistake. "Do you get a contractors discount?" Even if I did it won't apply to you. Do you ask the doctor if he gets a discount on that new liver you need, and is so can he pass along the savings? Also why can't you guys say Home Depot for cryin out loud? Thank you!

[ June 05, 2004, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
why can't you guys say Home Depot for cryin out loud?
Click to expand...
Abode Warehouse

Residence Repository

Habitat Storehouse

Dwelling Depository

Nope I just can't say Home Depot. :D

[ June 05, 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Brent HD and DIYers are ruining are trade
Click to expand...
I dont think so....

DIYers have been doing what they have been doing ever sense doing was doing.....

HD is just another store selling product just like any other store selling product,,,,to make money..

and before the stupid cells come rushing forward in our thought process,,,,remember """"" what Squard D, CH, T/B GE etc etc etc sells to the electric supply houses they also sell to the Home Depots and etc. of this county"""""" so go figure....

oh, i forgot,,,,the good old Hardware stores sell supplies for electrical work also.
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Just no way i would make the material list and hand it to customer to buy.Too much risk of them screwing it up and costing you more time.With exception to fixtures the electrician needs to supply everything.The price should only include what will be installed and a total price not a breakdown of items.I think maybe you were used for free advice and never had the job.Something is wrong in how this job even started.Should have been a 1 hour visit to make estimate and material list if she said yes,then arange time and pick up materials.The list stays in your files.What you did was engineer this for her handyman.
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Get the eggs ready....

I happen to like Home Depot (and Lowe's too). I think it has its place and that's fine. Yeah, their prices stink but it all evens out in the end.

HD has nothing to do with the DIY trend. It has to do with people who have a desire to spend moeny and work on their own homes. Expenditures on home improvement have gone through the roof (pun intended) in recent years. From what I see, DIY is a small fraction of the market. I don't see too many DIYers framing their new home or putting a boiler in. It just doesn't happen.

Sure, HD has its problems but so do most electrical distributors these days. Believe me, I was a "counter jerk" for 7 months, I know first hand.
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Also why can't you guys say Home Depot for cryin out loud?

Because it's so much fun coming up with other names for them!

"Dwelling Suppository"

Thanks Bob! :D

And seriously,

No wonder the DIYers go elsewhere.

Good! Where did they go before there was HD? You would never find a hardware store that would sell panels, meter pans, SE, conduit over 1/2 inch etc. That's why with the proliferation of HD, Lowes and others that will sell this stuff to anybody we have non qualified people doing this work. Add to that all those home improvement shows on TV that make it look easy...

I am still all for a restriction an electrical supplies to licensed contractors

Let the DIY'ers buy receptacles, switches and other replacement and LV items but restrict everything else.

-Hal
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

i was buying panels in several different stores and chains well before HD. Some electrical suppliers jacked up the price if you were not a volume buyer. Also cash restricted sales (get outta the way for the big guys) if you were not on their credit list. It's a nice way to go for a busy multiple person co., local situation. But a lone contractor buying at whoever had the parts, then and there, now, would often get nailed on prices. Spend the whole evening doing books, just to keep track of what, liens on this and that, my liens, parts house lien. Whose balance is on what?

Write a check, it's either parts or tools. Price is on the contract. Big amortized items separate. Read, watch tv, go out with friends, lose a few bucks here and there, gain time and sanity.

However if all you are doing is new tracts, it's all straightforward and one can do well at parts houses.

Some were better than others and didn't require billed sales, check was fine. Shopped there a lot.

I think the real source of DIYers was the "this old house" type programs that showed projects requiring a state certified contractor in some states, being done by actors as thin as a pencil, with no calluses, no dirty clothes, no minor cuts, always enough help from someone (that didn't require workers comp) for the heavy pieces.

next in line was the do it yerself books.

next in line was retired know it alls.

The HDs would never have made it if the customers weren't there from the onset.

The big deal that some homeowners get up about is the real cost of materials. I didn't itemize. Didn't do jobs where it was required. The contract price was the price. If the owner said it needed to come down, I would ask what they wanted to give up. If the customer gets an itemized bill and compares to HD, they are going to want to buy materials.

I let owners do it once in a while on T&M and told them that window time was just as expensive as working time, plus truck mileage, plus 45%. In Bay Area traffic those few missing parts can really, really addup.

You don't have to do all the jobs, let someone lean and hungry have a few, crumbs off your table, so to speak. When they get on their feet, they can let someone else have em.

sorry for length, paul
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Originally posted by jes25:
I am still all for a restriction an electrical supplies to licensed contractors
Click to expand...
We still live in a free country I believe. :eek:

While we restrict electrical stock sales to licensed electricians we better restrict a few more things.

1)Your vehicle is capable of exceeding the speed limit we better put a governor on that.

2)You can OD on over the counter medicines, we should have to go to the doctor to prescribe all medicines.

3)Undercooked, incorrectly handled food kills and makes many people sick each year. The govt should make us get a cooking license or hire a cook.

I know all areas are different but please consider in some areas a homeowner can legally pull a permit without a license and do electric work in their house.

Other areas do not have electrical licenses in the first place.

I for one believe in people being held accountable for their own actions, I do not want big brother deciding what is best.

We can sit here and blame Home Depot, This Old House, Hometime etc., but doesn't the real responsibility fall on the one doing the work, the one who has decided to go beyond their abilities?

JMO, Bob
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

Restricting sales is easy to get around and solves nothing.Ever think that maybe that home owner can not afford a licensed electrician ? The guy that wants to replace his own service and has the ability should be allowed.And he can and should pull a permit as owner.Big Orange is not the problem.
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

I remember venting a very similar situation on here before (1 yr ago) and it kinda happened to me again this year. You see, I get so passionate about this electrical stuff....really I do. :D I enjoy what I do and sometimes I have said way too much to the customer like: "Yeah, I'm gonna run the conduit on the wall with 3 ckts and then terminate in the j-box over there". Or: " I can pick up this existing ckt that I found in this J-box and make everything work fine". Then the customers cousin who also happens to be a race car driver/baker/baseball player/news caster and sometimes if time permits, also an part time electrician will do the job that I have laid out.
I have learned my lesson the hard way (costing me time/money) and I'm still learning.
 
Re: Know it all customer!!

as stated, just quote them the job......no need for details....after the job if they wish, u can break it down into 2 parts, materials, labor.....other than that, why do all the leg work and then hand them a list!

as for home improvement shows,,,nothing wrong ,,,,u ever think about how much work that show may send u? i know each year i get 3 or so jobs just because of the fear put into the viewer! dont know how many that dont mention the shows////

and in closing,,,,if the home owner does do the work ,,,,the inspector should catch the problems!!

my 2 cents...
 
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