KnowItAll new guy gets spanked

[blue spark]

Just thought I'd share this with you. About 6 months ago we hired a new master. Nice guy, pretty professional, and a hard worker. I get along with him great except he is really set in his ways and always the first to say "Well in the cities we never did it that way....". Granted I'm only a JM but I've been with the company for 6 years now and know what the boss expects and wants. It would get to the point of arguing with me that my way was the wrong way. He was mostly a service guy so he's somewhat familiar with light commercial. Anywho...
He was sent to a bakery/coffee place to install some new circuits for a freezer and a coffee grinder. He had our new apprentice along. After everything is installed he goes to land the circuits. Well you can guess what happened next. Brand new commercial freezer turned into a meat smoker in no time flat. Yeah, that orange wire, that's the stinger. I've pulled a few in my time but I had to chuckle a little.

 

[ultramegabob]

Orange wire? Im assuming your talking about a Highleg since he had a problem, but 277/480 has orange also. what did he do exactly?

 

[wbalsam1]

Everybody gets their "come-up-ance" eventually. This old guy I knew used to say "There ain't a road so long it ain't got a corner in it somewhere". :smile:

 

[blue spark]

Orange wire? Im assuming your talking about a Highleg since he had a problem, but 277/480 has orange also. what did he do exactly?

120/208. 120V appliance choking down 208 volts. We call it the stinger leg. Control board fried as well as the compressor.

 

[ultramegabob]

he knew to pull in an orange wire and still connected it as a single phase?

 

[blue spark]

he knew to pull in an orange wire and still connected it single phase?

No no no. The feeder to the panel (3 phase) was correctly identified. He neglected to examine that. There were no 3 phase breakers in the panel. He also neglected to see that all the SP and 2P breakers were oddly spaced which to me would be the first clue.

 

[sparky 134]

My brother had one of his guys do the same thing except with fluorescent lights. Brought the circuit back to the panel, found the first open space, bolted the breaker in, landed the wire, flipped the breaker and watched every ballast start smoking.

He too didn't notice the oddly spaced breakers.

 

[blue spark]

Hmmm upon further thought and coffee

Hmmm upon further thought and coffee

This would have to be a 2 xformer Open Delta system wouldn't it? What on earth would use single phase 208?

 

[360Youth]

I've pulled a few in my time but I had to chuckle a little.

Everybody needs to come down a notch or two on occassion and I have had more than I care to admit, but I would have to disagree at "a little chuckle" at what I presume resulted in a company loss.

 

[growler]

I get along with him great except he is really set in his ways and always the first to say "Well in the cities we never did it that way....".

How old is this guy? There used to be a lot of guys like that but I thought most of them had died out.

I never try to tell a man how to do his job. It is either code compliant or it's not. On that point it's none negotiable, it has to meet code. If it meets code and looks good I never care how it was accomplished.

 

[Minuteman]

What on earth would use single phase 208?

<Using my best Cliff Clavin voice>

Nothing on earth uses the 208 volt high leg there my young friend. Now, on the far planet Jupiter the exceptional gravitational pull is such that greater electromotive force is required to overcome the effect of locked rotor...

 

[blue spark]

but I would have to disagree at "a little chuckle" at what I presume resulted in a company loss.

That little chuckle was heard by noone but me. Of course I feel for the guy and he got no ribbing from anybody. As far as the company loss, well it sucks and all but even the boss said "I've fried a few in my day. What do you do except go on.".

 

[blue spark]

<Using my best Cliff Clavin voice>

Nothing on earth uses the 208 volt high leg there my young friend. Now, on the far planet Jupiter the exceptional gravitational pull is such that greater electromotive force is required to overcome the effect of locked rotor...

Thankyou sir. Now I will wipe the coffee off my monitor

 

[blue spark]

How old is this guy? There used to be a lot of guys like that but I thought most of them had died out.

He's my age. Early 40's. Geez, I must be dying out as well!
:grin:

 

[electricguy61]

208v high leg is a new one on me.

I have seen a fair amount of 240v delta systems, that have (2) 120v phases (240v phase to phase) and (1) 240v phase (also 240v phase to phase).

These systems seperate the electricians from the conduit benders/ wire pullers / rope stringers.

 

[mivey]

208v high leg is a new one on me.

I have seen a fair amount of 240v delta systems, that have (2) 120v phases (240v phase to phase) and (1) 240v phase (also 240v phase to phase).

These systems seperate the electricians from the conduit benders/ wire pullers / rope stringers.

I think you have NEVER seen a 120/240 with a 240 volt high leg (that is what it appears you are saying). On a center-tapped delta you will have (2) 120 volt line-ground, (3) 240 volt line-line, (1) 207.8 volt line-ground

Edit to Add:
The confusion might come because some people call this a "240 volt high-leg" system. What they mean is 120/240 with a 208 volt line-ground high leg.

 

[electricguy61]

I think you have NEVER seen a 120/240 with a 240 volt high leg (that is what it appears you are saying). On a center-tapped delta you will have (2) 120 volt line-ground, (3) 240 volt line-line, (1) 207.8 volt line-ground

Edit to Add:
The confusion might come because some people call this a "240 volt high-leg" system. What they mean is 120/240 with a 208 volt line-ground high leg.

Maybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

I'll have to check the voltage next time I see one.

 

[mivey]

Maybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

I'll have to check the voltage next time I see one.

If you read 120 & 120 line to ground on the single phase portion, and 240 line-line, you will have to read 208 volts from the high leg to ground. If you don't, you have some weird PQ issues, or a screw loose behind the meter.:grin:

 

[roger]

120/208. 120V appliance choking down 208 volts. We call it the stinger leg. Control board fried as well as the compressor.

We need to get the systems straight when discussing them. 208y/120V would be describing a Wye configurationn and does not have a high leg, a high leg would only be present in a 120/240V center tapped Delta.


208y/120 = 120v phase-N and 208 phase-phase

A center tapped Delta would have voltages of 240 phase-phase, 120 L-N-L on the center tapped winding, and 208 phase-N on the remaining phase.

The illustration below shows a center tapped Delta and it's high leg.

Roger

 

[sparky59]

i think a hi leg panel should be required to have a warning label. something more than the orange tape on the 208.