Kohler Gen & Generac ATS

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shockare

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Mixing apples and oranges again .

Need some help. I know i cant be the only one that has run into this:


New home that was set up with a Generac 100 amp Ats all wired on the rough in ,
waiting for Genny

3 months later homeowner buys a kohler 17res Generator
My work order go do finial hookup at gen. problem is How do i get the Genarac Ats to
tell the kolher gen to start up on power fail.

From what i do know is the the Kolher does not need the same 240volt sense wire as a Generac

The kohler only needs a 120volt for the Battery charger and a 2 wire back to a kohler Ats

The kohler has what i think is the remote start/stop is a End switch output that
must go to a kohler Ats that does the flip from Poco to gen

( i have not checked if voltage is present on the start/stop out/in on gen.
maybe a 24 dc ckt) back to a Kohler Ats

Has any one run into this before and how did you solve it quickly and cost effective
I have both wire diagrams in front of me


ps, No we cant change H.O gen and No i am Not tearing out Ats set months ago
 
I would start by calling Kohler.
I have not worked on any Kohlers yet,
We have an install coming up and we are only responsible for pulling and terminating service conductors and Genny feeders, mounting ATS.
Kohler will be responsible for the controls and will come to program the ATS.:-?
 
I don't think you can without modifying the switch. The Generac switch that it sounds like you have is designed to be used with the Guardian generator. There is no logic in the switch, just relay and coils that get its signal to work from the generator. I do not enough about Kohlers to remember what tells it to come on and if it even signals the switch to transfer or if the Kohler switches do that on their own. Some ATSs have their logic in the switch itself and will work with most any generator.
 
walkerj said:
I would start by calling Kohler.
I have not worked on any Kohlers yet,
We have an install coming up and we are only responsible for pulling and terminating service conductors and Genny feeders, mounting ATS.
Kohler will be responsible for the controls and will come to program the ATS.:-?
Click to expand...

You do not have to pull the control wires also? When we sell a Generac and the customer has its own EC they are responsible for all conductor pulls. We come back for the start up and sometimes end up terminating the control wires, but if they are not pulled already we leave and come back when everything is in place. I am not questioning your method/contractual obligations, it is just surprising.
 
shockare said:
Mixing apples and oranges again .

Need some help. I know i cant be the only one that has run into this:


New home that was set up with a Generac 100 amp Ats all wired on the rough in ,
waiting for Genny

3 months later homeowner buys a Kohler 17res Generator
My work order go do finial hookup at gen. problem is How do i get the Genarac Ats to
tell the kolher gen to start up on power fail.

From what i do know is the the Kohler does not need the same 240volt sense wire as a Generac

The kohler only needs a 120volt for the Battery charger and a 2 wire back to a kohler Ats

The kohler has what i think is the remote start/stop is a End switch output that
must go to a kohler Ats that does the flip from Poco to gen

( i have not checked if voltage is present on the start/stop out/in on gen.
maybe a 24 dc ckt) back to a Kohler Ats

Has any one run into this before and how did you solve it quickly and cost effective
I have both wire diagrams in front of me


ps, No we cant change H.O gen and No i am Not tearing out Ats set months ago
Click to expand...

I think your stuck, there is no "brain" in the generac ATS. and it sounds like there is no brain in the Kohler generator. It's most likely going to be a warranty void to do what you are trying to do. Even if you get the unit to start on a power outage, it will still need an exercise timer.
 
thanks for replys
but the generac ats is just plain dumb. there is nothing but 2 solenoids 2 micro switches
and 1 ice cube relay

All the work must come from the genny This is where all the logic boards are,
just a matter of figuring out the 12 dc ckt that runs the ice cube, I think i may have solved it
but was hoping that someone had beat me too it
 
shockare said:
thanks for replys
but the generac ats is just plain dumb. there is nothing but 2 solenoids 2 micro switches
and 1 ice cube relay

All the work must come from the genny This is where all the logic boards are,
just a matter of figuring out the 12 dc ckt that runs the ice cube, I think i may have solved it
but was hoping that someone had beat me too it
Click to expand...

I was working on one yesterday "generac" and like you said they are a "dumb" switch. Is there any control circuiting or logic in the Kohler generator? or is there an extermal control board for them you can get?
 
IMO there is no listing or warrantee issue unless specifically stated - I have not seen any... Doubt ASCO makes generators.... And they being the most popular brand for anything outside the resi market.

As for excersize and control - if you got really creative - I am sure you could come up with something. Having two dumb items, all one would have to do is smarten up one of them - that one being the transfer switch. Otherwise, if the gen is excersized regularly the battery gets charged during that time, and often all that is needed to do that is a contact closure. (A time clock to do that) As for swapping power, the gen set needs to do the same with a slight delay for it to gain speed and voltage before it swaps - so a smarter transfer with a contact closure is the best bet - contacts should be available on the ATS for that IMO...
 
Last edited:
update

update

Had to let you all know it is possible to have a generac ats work with kohler gen.

I was able to do it with less than $50 bucks of material , 1/2 a brain and 1 hour or
so of building a prototype at home last night

Results:

A small add on box with 4 wires and a 10 minute install {can be installed within Ats}
Able to set exercise time, With or with out a load
Voltage sense before gen start up & time delay,
Cool down time now an option not available before on the kohler gen
 
shockare said:
Had to let you all know it is possible to have a generac ats work with kohler gen.

I was able to do it with less than $50 bucks of material , 1/2 a brain and 1 hour or
so of building a prototype at home last night

Results:

A small add on box with 4 wires and a 10 minute install {can be installed within Ats}
Able to set exercise time, With or with out a load
Voltage sense before gen start up & time delay,
Cool down time now an option not available before on the kohler gen
Click to expand...
Please share! :-?
 
Well i will try to explain how and what i did

Gentrac Ats Dumb:
The Generac Ats has no logic board just the Ice cube relay and 2 micro switches
two solenoids and a battery charger

Generac Genny contains the logic board is requires the input L1 & L2 from Poco to use as the voltage sense
Once this voltage drops or is lost for a preset time Gen starts and the logic board will send
out 12v dc back to the Generac Ats ,
this 12dc triggers the Ice cube relay to open This releases the Poco holding solenoid
KLUNK!

ice cube is now waiting for power from genny to power up the genny hold solenoid
genny starts power back to ats and genny solenoid locks in
(just like generac designed it)





Kolher gen DUMB
The kohler genny contains no locic board except the engine trouble codes and user hours
to start the gen, a closure of two terminals is all thats needed ( end switch) to start genny


My part in this:

At the the Ats:
Ok to keep it simple I started with a 2nd ice cube relay the was that powerd form Poco side
( fused of course) easy enough Relay locked in Loss of power will close end switch
to start kohler gen, Next problem how to get the gen holding solenoid to hold power up.

This is where the existing battery charger that comes in the genrac ats
Took the 2 leads and hooked them to the Ice cuby relay in Ats
Relay locked in POCO holding solenoid Locked in

Power loss relay opens Poco holding
solenoid unlocks KLUNK! (spring loaded) now common contacts at genny side waiting for gen power in

by now the 2nd cube started kohler gen power commming in , first cube can now
power up the Genny holding solenoid ( had to move 1 wire on relay to do this)

Great it works now !!!! Not yet bad news still a few bugs

Have no way of knowing if Poco is down or voltage drops
no way to excise

I called a friend up he comes over with a few cases of ic chips jumps on my pc
writes some code for the excise time and a voltage sense with a time delay to
fire up the 2nd cube relay

took about a hour or so to build and program the chip
resulting in a small box with and only 4 wires to hook up L1,Net and the 2 wires to the end switch out to gen.

I know its not approved ,but it does work! After thinking some more i need to improve my design, like what if the genny didn't start? should program try the restart genny? out of oil?
no gas? engine trouble codes?
Kohler has a feature to add extras...Looking into this part

back to the drawing board Have to build a better mouse trap And cheaply


P.s the Big boss ordered a new kohler Ats will be back there to swap out
 
shockare said:
Had to let you all know it is possible to have a generac ats work with kohler gen.

I was able to do it with less than $50 bucks of material , 1/2 a brain and 1 hour or
so of building a prototype at home last night

Results:

A small add on box with 4 wires and a 10 minute install {can be installed within Ats}
Able to set exercise time, With or with out a load
Voltage sense before gen start up & time delay,
Cool down time now an option not available before on the kohler gen
Click to expand...

Most anything can be made to work with the right parts, but you probably void the warranty on both items with the modifications. (Manufact. will always find an out :wink:) Congrats on thinking it through and making it work. Maybe you can patent an add-on to make gensets work with each other. Don't forget to share with the rest of us. :D
 
360Youth said:
Most anything can be made to work with the right parts, but you probably void the warranty on both items with the modifications. (Manufact. will always find an out :wink:) Congrats on thinking it through and making it work. Maybe you can patent an add-on to make gensets work with each other. Don't forget to share with the rest of us. :D
Click to expand...

That's cool that you made it work and I am sure it has been a great learning experience for you. I must ask why did the homeowner not just buy compatible components? Was the HO just like a lot of others trying to save a few bucks buying cheaper parts and paying more to get it to work and voiding his warranty than if he would have matched equipment to begin with?
 
shockare said:
Mixing apples and oranges again .

Need some help. I know i cant be the only one that has run into this:


New home that was set up with a Generac 100 amp Ats all wired on the rough in ,
waiting for Genny

3 months later homeowner buys a kohler 17res Generator
My work order go do finial hookup at gen. problem is How do i get the Genarac Ats to
tell the kolher gen to start up on power fail.

From what i do know is the the Kolher does not need the same 240volt sense wire as a Generac

The kohler only needs a 120volt for the Battery charger and a 2 wire back to a kohler Ats

The kohler has what i think is the remote start/stop is a End switch output that
must go to a kohler Ats that does the flip from Poco to gen

( i have not checked if voltage is present on the start/stop out/in on gen.
maybe a 24 dc ckt) back to a Kohler Ats

Has any one run into this before and how did you solve it quickly and cost effective
I have both wire diagrams in front of me


ps, No we cant change H.O gen and No i am Not tearing out Ats set months ago
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply, you can go about this 2 ways

1) the ats has a icebube relay. That relay should drop out in an outage. If they do then choose the normally closed contacts to start the motor.

2) install a icecube relay to provide contact closure on an outage. You can actually install an exercise clock in series with the relays coil or parallel with the start contacts.

Just remember the motor runs when you short the 2 run wires.
 
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