L 14-50 EV receptacle
- Thread starter nizak
- Start date
VirutalElectrician
Senior Member
- Location
- Mpls, MN
- Occupation
- Sparky - Trying to be retired
Hubbell one also weighs 2-3 times as much as the $10 leviton.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
The Hubbell is 75°C termination rated isn't it? I also remember the Hubbell being rated for continuous use at 50A. I believe the others are 60°C and are not rated for continuous use at 50A.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
1450W
<p>50 Amp, 125/250 Volt, NEMA 14-50R, 3P, 4W, Flush Mtg EV Charging Outlet/Receptacle, Straight Blade, Industrial Grade, Weather-Resistant, Grounding, Side Wired, Steel Strap, Black</p>
leviton.com
"Operating Temperature : -40°C to 60°C"
Straight Blade Devices, Receptacles, RTP, Industrial Grade, 3-Pole 4-Wire Grounding, 50A 125/250V, 14-50R, Black, Single Pack. | HBL9450A | Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems
Designed for plug-in EV charging applications, Hubbell’s 14-50R receptacle is a premium and dependable solution to exceed the requirements of electric vehicl...
"Maximum continuous 75°C,"
Lioneye
Member
- Location
- Northwest USA
- Occupation
- Master Electrician, State Electrical Inspector
Good info and photos!
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
All listed receptacles have been tested for use at 100%.
But for how long? And after how many thermal or mechanical cycles?
I’m sure they all past the tests out of the box.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
At the rate that these cheapo receptacles are burning up not long enough. Something needs to be done about the testing. No device should burn up under normal use within its rating.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
I spoke with someone from NEMA at a IAEI conference and he said that the heat from continuous charging EVs has created an internal dialogue on the ratings. Mainly, the 50A is the issue.
They know they are melting/failing at a high rate. They also know that they fail and don't always trip the overload on the breaker.
I assume it to be a issue of continuous use and people undersizing the wire. For example, using the 75°C column on products that are rated 60°C.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
They run the load taking temperature measurements at 5 minute intervals until there is no temperature rise for 3 consecutive measurement. I don't recall the permitted temperature rise, but the highest temperature recorded cannot exceed the temperature rise specified in the product standard.
These tests are done as part of the initial listing of the product and random product is tested periodically to maintain the listing.
Note the the testing procedures are very specific. It is possible those do not match the real world usage of this product.
However just like the cheep junk 15 and 20 amp receptacles and the more expensive commercial grade receptacles there are construction differences that let some devices perform better than others, even though they all pass the listing tests.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Which is extremely likely in this case. Makes you wonder about the validity of the listing process.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I would think running it at 100% and having a temperature rise of 30°C or less should reflect the type of usage. Give that the test continues so there is no additional temperature rise for 3 five minute intervals. The temperature is measured at the receptacle terminals and at the blade to socket connections.
Not sure what else is going on. One person has suggest that there may have been design changes and the required follow up testing was not completed.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Perhaps the thermal environment of the test does not match the thermal environment of actual usage. Eg. if the test is done indoors in open air, that's different from being inside a box inside a wall filled with thermal insulation, possibly with solar heat gain on the exterior face of the wall, even when the indoor temperatures are the same.
Cheers, Wayne
A rep was at the supply house showing off new stuff told and me the problem was only with AL terminations, Leviton solved the problem by adding this wording to the EV receptacle:1450W
<p>50 Amp, 125/250 Volt, NEMA 14-50R, 3P, 4W, Flush Mtg EV Charging Outlet/Receptacle, Straight Blade, Industrial Grade, Weather-Resistant, Grounding, Side Wired, Steel Strap, Black</p>
"Operating Temperature : -40°C to 60°C"
Straight Blade Devices, Receptacles, RTP, Industrial Grade, 3-Pole 4-Wire Grounding, 50A 125/250V, 14-50R, Black, Single Pack. | HBL9450A | Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems
Designed for plug-in EV charging applications, Hubbell’s 14-50R receptacle is a premium and dependable solution to exceed the requirements of electric vehicl...www.hubbell.com
"Maximum continuous 75°C,"
"Wire Gauge : For use with #4, #6 or #8 AWG copper wire ONLY."
What do you do when the male cord is part of the assembly?
Most seem to come with a 4 wire end.
Do you remove the male end and install a 3 wire cord end?
Gotta wonder how many of these failed devices go back to improper termination of the wires.
Most here know that if you tighten down the conductors then rotate the device to fit it in the box they will have loosened.
I make a point to turn the device 90 degrees to the right and left then re torque.
The continuous duty of these devices only magnify the poor connection.
Most here know that if you tighten down the conductors then rotate the device to fit it in the box they will have loosened.
I make a point to turn the device 90 degrees to the right and left then re torque.
The continuous duty of these devices only magnify the poor connection.
Elect117
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Engineer E.E. P.E.
I don't think a poor connection would fail after 3 years. Unless you are making a blanket statement. In which case, I would still think that is not likely. Because then you would have a equal fail rate on lower rated receptacles and breakers where people are making improper connections. This is specific to the 50A rated. Though I do not deny that an improper connection can be a problem.
The issue isn't aluminum vs copper. It is ampacity and termination temperature. It is also whether or not the testing is adequate to test for continuous use. Don and Infinity are right in questioning if the test is really providing a real world use case for the application of EV charging.
Was there any other details as to the receptacles location in the home, wires terminated and breaker size?