L.E.D. lamp bulbs are on a race to the bottom these days

[Flicker Index]

This random bulb I got here is 8 years old.
Date code: 2017 Week 5. CHINA
7.5W 840 lm.
EcoSmart 1002459573
Rated at 15,000 hours

There are a few with higher lm/W than this, but there are plenty in the same range of output with lower lumens per watt out there in 2025...
The ballast on this LED lamp is different from a similar lamp you can buy now. If you were to put it in on a same switch, the dimming curve is so drastically different that you can not use them together. So, they're like tires on 4WD vehicles where you have to replace in sets or replace with the same exact type with similar wear level. This wasn't really an issue until dimmable L.E.D. type bulbs became a common place.

 

[CoolWill]

LEDs are another thing foisted upon and touted as being better, but in nearly every way have been worse. They do indeed use less energy, but they don't last, on average, nearly as long as incandescents. They are sensitive to micro changes in voltage, sometimes glow when the switch is off, strobe when they fail, need SPDs, etc. No doubt these are just engineering problems that have solutions, but at what price point?

 

[infinity]

LEDs are absolutely better than incandescent lamps. The problem is everyone wants to pay next to nothing for them so the quality is very low. You get what you pay for.

 

[Besoeker3]

LEDs are another thing foisted upon and touted as being better, but in nearly every way have been worse. They do indeed use less energy, but they don't last, on average, nearly as long as incandescents. They are sensitive to micro changes in voltage, sometimes glow when the switch is off, strobe when they fail, need SPDs, etc. No doubt these are just engineering problems that have solutions, but at what price point?

I have commented on this We have about a couple of dozen LEDs, When we moved house, six years ago, we replaced them all. Since then I had just one failure. Not to mention they are one tenth of their energy cost.

 

[CoolWill]

LEDs are absolutely better than incandescent lamps. The problem is everyone wants to pay next to nothing for them so the quality is very low. You get what you pay for.

Better how? In energy usage? I agree. Anecdotally, I have a number of incandescent lamps still in use. In 14 years at this house, I have changed two incandescents that were here originally. There are at least 5 that are still used every day. Two in the bathroom light wouldn't unscrew so I left them. But they still work. The flood lights still work. But no LED has lasted that long. Expensive or cheap. I know that milage varies, but I don't have these glowing positive encounters with them.

 

[CoolWill]

I have commented on this We have about a couple of dozen LEDs, When we moved house, six years ago, we replaced them all. Since then I had just one failure. Not to mention they are one tenth of their energy cost.

I think your experience is because of your market. Here in America, goods are engineered for short life and high turnover. Your lamps are probably simply better made.

 

[Besoeker3]

I think your experience is because of your market. Here in America, goods are engineered for short life and high turnover. Your lamps are probably simply better made.

"For reliable, high-quality LED light bulbs made in the USA, consider brands like TCP Lighting, Cree, and Philips. "
I use Philips.

 

[ELA]

I mostly use Philips LEDs for better quality and less experience with flickering.

One consideration might be buying electronics with a CE mark. Electronics with a CE mark are tested to more stringent EMC standards.
Building to the more stringent EMC standards can help reduce some issues with poor performance under "noisy" electrical environments.
More consideration is given to one piece of electronics from interfering with other equipment. This is the "C" in EMC.

 

[kwired]

This random bulb I got here is 8 years old.
Date code: 2017 Week 5. CHINA
7.5W 840 lm.
EcoSmart 1002459573
Rated at 15,000 hours

There are a few with higher lm/W than this, but there are plenty in the same range of output with lower lumens per watt out there in 2025...
The ballast on this LED lamp is different from a similar lamp you can buy now. If you were to put it in on a same switch, the dimming curve is so drastically different that you can not use them together. So, they're like tires on 4WD vehicles where you have to replace in sets or replace with the same exact type with similar wear level. This wasn't really an issue until dimmable L.E.D. type bulbs became a common place.

Dimming probably should only be done with 0-10V circuitry and not by altering main input volts/current with LED lamps.

The cheaper the lamp is the less they likely put into it and will be more susceptible to flicker from small input voltage variations and distorted wave forms we are seeing more of with more non linear loads these days. They may also not be as likely to handle as many transients as better built lamps may handle. The LED's themselves probably seldom fail unless maybe cooling issues are introduced, the drivers are where the failures likely occur most the time.

 

[ramsy]

lower lumens per watt out there in 2025

I believe In 2016 California tried to trade pin-base bulbs with it's own JA8 energy standard using Edison based LED screw shells.

Several industry proposals for developing this JA8 standard were shot down, because bleeding edge LED efficiency is typically proprietary, and certain kelvin, or tolerable CRI specs suffer when highest efficiency is the predominant metric. Since healthy competition was prioritized to keep JA8 cost down to rival other junk, the standard dropped Lumens per Watt as a predominant priority.

Since 2016 I don't believe the JA8 market expanded beyond new construction in California. JA8 bulb production eventually outpaced demand until dollar stores & utilities couldn't give them away. By 2018 JA8 bulbs were no longer carried by dollar stores, probably after reduced production, or after federal Energy Star standards were near equivalents.

I believe by 2020 California encountered an enforcement crises with some of its energy standards, particularly with LED lighting for new construction. Municipal AHJ's were successfully avoiding the complex compliance forms, deferring to outsourced specialty C10 contractors. Forum member Fulthrotl was doing lighting certifications full time until COO could no longer be held up for missing lighting certs. When compliance went down the drain, around 2022 a mass exodus of professionals made lateral career moves away from the energy efficiency industry.

With similar cuts to government regulation across the USA, and unenforceable lighting certifications for new construction, LED's are left without a mandate. With less incentive for continued research & development, higher output quantum dot LED's for building lighting are less likely to reach the market.

What remains for existing LED tech is production cost cutting, lower quality, and poorer performance. Perhaps a company like Phillips will eventually come up with a filament that is efficient enough to finally put the bad LED drama to rest.