L feet for shingles

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Occupation
Electrician
I do very little roof mounted solar. I was recently doing some AC side connection work for a solar contractor, and noticed they've been using these L feet that have mastic on the bottom and they just screw them right down on the shingles with no flashing or boot or anything. Are these becoming common? What do you guys think of them? What do you use for your typical shingled roof?
 
I was tempted, as it would be so much quicker. Competitors bragging about how quick their installs go with no flashings.

....but most experienced pros said it's a quick and dirty method, but does not match the waterproofing of a flashing or flashed mount.

Given water and moisture caused issues are possibly the biggest reason to be sued and our greatest liability , I'll stick to flashed mounts.

On that note, the flashings themselves still need caulking underneath.

Especially the 8 or 9 in wide ones made by iron ridge etc.
Even on strong pitched roofs I've had water creeping under the flashings and cause a leak! This is especially the case with several layers of roof which causes the lag screw to pull in through the soft shingles and cause a depression there.
 
several layers of roof which causes the lag screw to pull in through the soft shingles
Unless a product listing is available to show plan check that screwing into framing is not required.

IMHO Plans may force inspectors to pass junk, if listings are verified on site.
 
Wow that's nanny state.
The state has a vested interest in enforcing construction to a standard of safety and reliability. Not just so that the home-owner isn't screwed over by contractors without integrity, but also for future owners. And for the neighboring buildings and the general public nearby, to reduce the risk of windborne debris or fires causing externalized damage.
 
The state has a vested interest in enforcing construction to a standard of safety and reliability. Not just so that the home-owner isn't screwed over by contractors without integrity, but also for future owners. And for the neighboring buildings and the general public nearby, to reduce the risk of windborne debris or fires causing externalized damage.
I am skeptical the state is qualified to be making those decisions. One product , Iron Ridge HUG® passed both
the UL 441 Section
27 “Rain Test” and
TAS 100(A)-95
“Wind Driven Rain
Test” by Intertek. Has the ahj who does not allow these put in time money and research and found a different conclusion than the above testing agencies? I would not want the state making a decision for me on which product to use.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zee
I haven't done resi PV in several years; things may have changed, but the AHJ I have in mind added the flashing requirement in reaction to a rash of roof leak complaints on asphalt shingle roofs where flashing was not used.
 
And what about thru fastener metal roofing? Can't really flash those, so why are those (presumably) okay on metal roofs but not shingles?
You would have to ask the AHJ that question, but I assume that they were responding only to what they perceived as a problem. FWIW most of the metal roofs I have dealt with, both resi and commercial, have had standing seams with no PV mounting penetrations.
 
Last edited:
- I stock IronRidge HUGs because they are a great product when I need to put a mount somewhere and there's no rafter nearby.

- The biggest danger with any unflashed mount are the vertical gaps in composition shingle where they end every 3 ft, along with the key ways. Instructions state not to place one over these.
Water could get under them if placed in the wrong position.

- If you're really tempted to use them exclusively, you can do what we did 20 years ago and that is slide in a L-flashing immediately upslope of the mount. It works as a rain water diverter. We would cock them slightly to one side channeling the rain off to that side around the mount.
These are the galvanized L-shaped flashings roofers buy in packs to go around skylights and chimneys. Maybe they're called step flashings.
 
And what about thru fastener metal roofing? Can't really flash those, so why are those (presumably) okay on metal roofs but not shingles?
Good point I agree with you on the AHJ not the most proficient at specifying product.

The case with the metal roof though in particular is that all the fasteners are on the raised and narrow ridge.
And I don't see them on homes.
 
- I stock IronRidge HUGs because they are a great product when I need to put a mount somewhere and there's no rafter nearby.

- The biggest danger with any unflashed mount are the vertical gaps in composition shingle where they end every 3 ft, along with the key ways. Instructions state not to place one over these.
Water could get under them if placed in the wrong position.

- If you're really tempted to use them exclusively, you can do what we did 20 years ago and that is slide in a L-flashing immediately upslope of the mount. It works as a rain water diverter. We would cock them slightly to one side channeling the rain off to that side around the mount.
These are the galvanized L-shaped flashings roofers buy in packs to go around skylights and chimneys. Maybe they're called step flashings.

Although I am still on the fence about using HUGS where the space underneath is insulated, closed in, or not accessible, I would be all for using them where it's open . In fact just yesterday I talked to someone about a system on a detached garage. The rafters are all open. If there's a leak you can see it and it won't do any damage.

And yes I'm with you, I would provide an extra layer of sealant around the perimeter and the auxiliary flashings you talk about.
 
We are celebrating our 25th year of installing almost entirely residential systems in rainy NW WA state, and I am not a fan of flashed L-feet! We used them for years, and after a few leaks, we moved away from that method. We have not had any problems with the Quickbolt attachments we switched to.

The problem with flashed L-feet is that you have to use a shingle ripper to remove two rows of nails that get in the way of sliding the flashing up and into place, and while it is possible to squirt some sealant into the lower row of nail holes, the nail holes at the upper row are too far under the shingle to access with a caulk gun, and so there will remain unfilled holes in the roof. One might think that they are too far up under the shingle for water to reach (that's what we thought!), but it isn't true. The roofs were we had problems were generally 3-5/12 roofs with lots of wind exposure, and the wind had no trouble at all blowing copious quantities of rain up under the shingles and leaking into the attic.

Our standard procedure now is to, 1) locate the rafter/truss, 2) drill a couple 1/8" pilot holes to confirm where the center of the rafter is, 3) drill a 3/16" hole for the 5/16" lag screw in the center of the rafter, 3) fill the probe holes with sealant and a roofing nail, 4) squirt sealant in the pilot hole, on the bottom side of the Quickbolt disc, and the lag screw threads, 4) send it home confirming that you have squeeze-out around the entire perimeter of the Quickbolt disc. Note that the probe holes that were filled with roofing nails are completely covered by the 3" diameter Quickmount disc, so there is no possibility of a leak. They have a 4" disc too in case your sins need a little extra attention. This method is much more reliable than flashed L-feet, and I am glad to see the industry is moving in that direction.
 
Hmmm, certainly food for thought. It goes against everything we've been told about flashed mounts being better.
 
Our standard procedure now is to, 1) locate the rafter/truss, 2) drill a couple 1/8" pilot holes.. 3) fill the probe holes with sealant and a roofing nail, 4) squirt sealant in the pilot hole.. 5) ..squeeze-out around the entire perimeter of the Quickbolt disc.
Lets engineer this procedure from 5-steps to 1.

From inside the attic snap a line across framing, send long pilot thru center of each board first time, insert flag into hole, and repeat.
 
Top