Large Metal Tank Grounding- CO2, N2

[32Lateralus]

If large metal tanks containing CO2 and N2 are added to a new pad outdoors, where could one find the requirements, if any, to ground these?

Additionally, if the tanks are being filled via trucks, are there any bonding requirements?

I am curious where to find any requirements for grounding/bonding for these types of tanks. Ive found NFPA 780 for lightning, but not sure about issues of static when draining tanks or anything like that.

Thanks,

 

[tortuga]

Probably want to see NFPA 55

NFPA 55: Compressed Gases and Cryogenic Fluids Code

<p>1.1 Scope.<br />This code shall provide fundamental safeguards for the installation, storage, use, and handling of compressed gases and cryogenic fluids in portable and stationary cylinders, containers, and tanks.</p>

www.nfpa.org

 

[Shaneyj]

If large metal tanks containing CO2 and N2 are added to a new pad outdoors, where could one find the requirements, if any, to ground these?

Additionally, if the tanks are being filled via trucks, are there any bonding requirements?

I am curious where to find any requirements for grounding/bonding for these types of tanks. Ive found NFPA 780 for lightning, but not sure about issues of static when draining tanks or anything like that.

Thanks,

I maintained a facility that used approx a tanker a day of N2. The GenOx guys said we were their top user in Houston.
Nitrogen (in all but abnormal conditions) is inert - so no static concerns as it relates to combustion.
I do not recall the tanker drivers making any bonding connections while filling - I think this is something I would have known about if they needed a grounding point to attach to.
No experience with CO2, but per my wife (Masters in Chemistry) - its not combustible either.
You may know this already, but you can access NFPA 55 for free by creating a profile on their website
As suggested by Tortuga, read it.
But if the mediums are not combustible - I see no special reason to ground/bond outside of standard codes requirements.

 

[Shaneyj]

I maintained a facility that used approx a tanker a day of N2. The GenOx guys said we were their top user in Houston.
Nitrogen (in all but abnormal conditions) is inert - so no static concerns as it relates to combustion.
I do not recall the tanker drivers making any bonding connections while filling - I think this is something I would have known about if they needed a grounding point to attach to.
No experience with CO2, but per my wife (Masters in Chemistry) - its not combustible either.
You may know this already, but you can access NFPA 55 for free by creating a profile on their website
As suggested by Tortuga, read it.
But if the mediums are not combustible - I see no special reason to ground/bond outside of standard code requirements.

 

[petersonra]

If large metal tanks containing CO2 and N2 are added to a new pad outdoors, where could one find the requirements, if any, to ground these?

Additionally, if the tanks are being filled via trucks, are there any bonding requirements?

I am curious where to find any requirements for grounding/bonding for these types of tanks. Ive found NFPA 780 for lightning, but not sure about issues of static when draining tanks or anything like that.

Thanks,

neither are combustible, so I don't think there are going to be any special grounding or bonding requirements. having said that, there may be other things in the area that might be at issue as far as static goes that might come into play.

 

[jackyjoy123]

I maintained a facility that used approx a tanker a day of N2. The GenOx guys said we were their top user in Houston.
Nitrogen (in all but abnormal conditions) is inert - so no static concerns as it relates to combustion.
I do not recall the tanker drivers making any bonding connections while filling - I think this is something I would have known about if they needed a grounding point to attach to.
No experience with CO2, but per my wife (Masters in Chemistry) - its not combustible either.
You may know this already, but you can access NFPA 55 for free by creating a profile on their website
As suggested by Tortuga, read it.
But if the mediums are not combustible - I see no special reason to ground/bond outside of standard codes requirements.

Thanks for the awesome information.

 

[paulengr]

If large metal tanks containing CO2 and N2 are added to a new pad outdoors, where could one find the requirements, if any, to ground these?

Additionally, if the tanks are being filled via trucks, are there any bonding requirements?

I am curious where to find any requirements for grounding/bonding for these types of tanks. Ive found NFPA 780 for lightning, but not sure about issues of static when draining tanks or anything like that.

Thanks,

1. A metal tank sitting on a concrete pad has far lower resistance than you can ever achieve through bonding. The only reason to add straps at all is just so you can generate a report for the bureaucrats at the insurance company, if they are that dumb, Let me repeat this again…metal tanks sitting on Earth, metal or concrete pads need not be bonded because they already are. I charge good money to customers verifying this basic fact every year. Some even provide straps where I can use a clamp on ground tester to report 0.01 ohms (lowest reading) every year.

2. N2 and CO2 are both totally inert and in fact both are used for fire suppression. No Codes because that would be stupid. About the only problem I know of is that with liquid CO2 if you rely on natural heating and don’t control your withdrawal rate it can freeze up solid on you. Again not a fire hazard.

Another classic one is treating diesel fuel (#2) or bunker C (#6) with static protection and hazardous location designs. These are fuels but unless atomized don’t sustain a flame. Pour a cup of diesel fuel and drop a lit match in it…it will be snuffed out. Do the same with gasoline and stand back! Hence all diesel fuel islands have no protection and plastic containers are totally legal.

This is an area where if you do not have experience, don’t do hazardous locations. A lot of people walking around with professional engineer licenses are also totally unqualified to do evaluations on potential hazardous locations. As an example I once had a comical engineer declare an entire building housing some kilns as a hazardous location. The raw material that was processed is a black mineral that is not flammable. He went in and saw black dust. That was the beginning and end of his entire evaluation. He didn’t even bother to read the NFPA Codes for kilns which states that pulverized coal piping is not a hazardous location. If we blindly listened to this idiot it would have cost tens of millions if not more to totally redo the entire building.

 

[ptonsparky]

Does the transfer of these materials create static?

I've heard it on diesel hoses and while not dangerous, it was easy to correct. (Tank to trucks)

 

[Open Neutral]

Another classic one is treating diesel fuel (#2) or bunker C (#6) with static protection and hazardous location designs. These are fuels but unless atomized don’t sustain a flame. Pour a cup of diesel fuel and drop a lit match in it…it will be snuffed out. Do the same with gasoline and stand back!

When I worked on a refined liquids pipeline, we had annual fire fighting training. A isolated pond got an half-inch of #2 heating oil. As you said, you can throw matches at it all day. Then we added a splash of gasoline, and tried again, the whole pond would be roaring within 2-3 seconds.

Then 2 people with ?20 lb? Ansul extinguishers could get it out within a few minutes. We also had 150# units on bike wheels.