Laundry circuit rules? Two duplex OK?

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zimmee66

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Hello!

I am a low-coltage/networking/automation contractor so know only the basics about NEC code.

I have a customer who is having me add a home automation control panel in his basement.

My question is about powering the panel...

There are two 20A/120V laundry-dedicated non-GFI duplex's right next to the location for the control panel, one duplex is completely unused.

I've been trying to decide if by code he needs to have a new circuit installed for the control panel or can just use the existing laundry circuit.

Its kind of odd to see two duplexes anyways, I thought they were usually just one on a laundry circuit.

The conrol panel I am installing has built-in power conditioning and very modest power needs, so from my standpoint there would be no reason not to plug it into the laundry circuit.

But my basic NEC handbook (its old too, 2002) makes it sound like not only shouldnt I do that, but there shouldnt even be two duplex receptacles there.

The thing is, if I tell him he needs a new circuit, and I dont do AC power--hes's going to get irritated that it'll cost him a couple hundred more--he's already not an easygoing customer.

any guidence on this would be very much appreciated.
 
Your in fine shape.Go ahead and use it.He only needed the 1 required outlet so the other is fine.Even if all that was available was 1 duplex you could legally use the other half.Might be dirty but electric
 
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Now here are 2 questions.Could he legally replace a single outlet with a duplex without being licensed ?If not is a 3 way adaptor allowed ?
 
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Jim W in Tampa said:
Now here is a question.Could he legally replace a single outlet with a duplex without being licensed ?If not is a 3 way adaptor allowed ?
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No, and not an EC issue (but it would defeat the intent of having a single receptacle).

Oh, and that was two questions.
 
Where in the code does it say it must be a single receptacle ? Will admit that few places would allow him to do the work.But many might allow a handyman to do it.
 
I'd assume that Larry is referring to a laundry in the basement needing to be on a single receptacle, or else GFI'd. Basement being the driving force.
 
j_erickson said:
I'd assume that Larry is referring to a laundry in the basement needing to be on a single receptacle, or else GFI'd. Basement being the driving force.
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Ok ,from being in Florida i was not thinking about basements.That would be a problem unless it was a gfci receptacle,not great idea for either.Would his equipment require a gfci ?
 
I would say that the duplex supplying the washer should have been a single receptacle, and then the other duplex should have been a GFI (210.8(A)(5)).

The laundry circuit would have been allowed to power these two receptacle outlets, IMO.

Introducing this permanently installed automation panel into the equation, I would say it cannot be supplied from the Laundry Circuit. (210.11(C)(2))

The (should-be) GFCI can supply temporarily-connected appliances, under the understanding that it was installed with the expection of Laundry-related cord-and-plug-connected appliances (irons and whatnot).

However, I view supplying the permanently installed automation panel as a technical code violation, IMO. If the load of the panel is very small, I wouldn't sweat it too much. I would not use it myself, if it was easy enough to make use of the basement lighting circuit for it.

I would install a single receptacle supplied from the basement lighting circuit, myself. No question of compliance that way.

My two cents.
 
First, to answer one of the original questions, the NEC does not say that you can only have one duplex receptacle on the laundry circuit. It says that you must have at least one, so having two is certainly acceptable.

Secondly, the NEC does not require GFCI protection for all basement receptacles. If the basement is not ?unfinished,? and if the receptacle is further than 6 feet from the laundry tub, it need not have GFCI. Zimmee66, you would have to tell us whether or not this is the case.

Third, the NEC says that the ?laundry circuit? can have no ?other outlets? than receptacle outlets that serve the laundry. As George pointed out, that means, for example, that you can?t have both a basement light and a laundry receptacle on the same circuit. In this case, it seems to me that you have two duplex receptacles that are probably supplied from the same circuit. So long as you have no lights or other types of outlets on that same circuit, and provided you don?t need GFCI (as I discuss above), the circuit is code compliant as-is.

Now the key question is whether or not the NEC would forbid plugging in this non-laundry-related equipment into a laundry receptacle. I say it does not. I say that the boundaries of the NEC?s applicability ended, when the installing electrician screwed the cover onto the receptacle. What the NEC forbids is ?other outlets? on the laundry circuit. A piece of equipment that is plug and cord connected is not an ?outlet.? Therefore it would not be a code violation to install this item close to a laundry receptacle and plug it into that receptacle.

Furthermore, the question of whether the existing pair of duplex receptacles does, or does not, require GFCI protection does not enter into the present discussion. It is commonly stated, and it is frequently true, that even if a house has a code violation, the house need not be brought up to current codes, unless a new installation impacts the circuit that comprises the violation. The act of plugging in a piece of equipment does not constitute a ?new installation,? in this context. You might as well say that plugging a vacuum cleaner into a circuit that should have, but does not have, GFCI protection is an installation, and therefore forces you to bring the circuit up to current codes. As far as the NEC is concerned, the fact that you bolt something into a wall is meaningless. It is only when you attempt to bring power to the unit that the NEC would ever apply. And in this case, you bring power by inserting a plug into a receptacle, and the NEC has nothing to say about that act.

NOTICE TO ALL MEMBERS:

I throw this out, knowing well that all might not agree, and that it might stir up some discussion. However, I am putting you on notice that I will not participate in any such discussion. I am going on vacation shortly, visiting my daughter and her husband in England, and stopping by Scotland while we're in the neighborhood. I won?t be back for two weeks, and I don?t plan to use the Internet for any reason. So have a good time with this discussion; I promise to look into it when I return.
 
Enjoy yourself Charlie B.

You might want to check with Bill before riding any Trams while on Vacation though. :D

Roger
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Can he leave like this without a 2 week notice ?
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Nay, I say; let's make him stay!
If we delay, he's on his way!

Do not be flip, shoot from the hip.
We must not slip; belay his trip.

If we relax, then he'll make tracks.
And once he packs his shirts and slacks,

He'll board a plane and cross the main.
(Ain't this inane, I can't be sane!)
 
Too late, the boarding passes are being printed already.


:D :D :D :D (Smile) (Smile) (Smile) (Smile) (Smile) (Smile) (Smile) (Smile)


My only concern is that, as I am made to understand, they don't sell bourbon in England or Scotland. Whatever shall I do???

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Edited to add that I had a whole lot more of the smile images in my first attempt to post. But the Forum Software Police stepped in and reported to me that I was limited to four. So I've had to replace the images with words, as shown above.

LOL.

TTFN
 
charlie b said:
My only concern is that, as I am made to understand, they don't sell bourbon in England or Scotland. Whatever shall I do???
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Try Irish whiskey?

Hope you liked the Dr. Seuss-ish poem.
 
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