Laying out a job

[joeyww12000]

I am a journeyman electrician with 5 years experience, 3 residential and 2 commercial. I am currently doing commercial wiring and am looking to fast track up the payscale. I do understand experience and time are the best way to learn, but I have the ability to learn and am impatient. I plan on trying to take in enough on my next two or three jobs to maybe taking on a job from the ground up. What would be the best way to layout a job? I understand different jobs are going to have different specs, but are there standard steps to laying out a job that one does every job?

 

[quogueelectric]

By far the greatest loss of money comes from foreman who doesnt prepare the proper material for the job.
Most people who are professional want to give a good days work and when the inept foreman does not have the tools or material for the job it just takes the wind out of everyones sails and is lose lose all around.
It makes the employee who does not have the material to do the job very frustrated and results in the blame game to the boss for all the lost time and positive attitude.
I allways stock an arsenal of basic material to which everyone adapts to what is used in concrete what is used in block what is used in sheetrock for fastening that way there is no question of what is expected of them.
The second most important is to get the material central to the work area this should be self explanitory not to waste your time walking back and forth for material and tools all day.
For example if you are doing a duct bank with 10000 ft of 4" pvc dont dump 2 miles of pipe at the end of the run and walk it back and forth all week. Have the delivery truck run along the trench path and drop the pipe in bundles every 50 to 100 ft time is money and money is time.
You can look busy all day and still be wasting money when it is not laid out properly.

 

[growler]

What would be the best way to layout a job?

Running a job is nothing more than a race against time. You start out behind schedule on day one and you need to catch up before the end of the job.

The layout or planning is however you intend to accomplish this miraculous feat.

 

[Jljohnson]

The fastest track up the payscale is to take your masters test and hang your own shingle. If you don't want to go that route (and there are alot of reasons not to) then keep doing what you are doing and show initiative. If you are truly a keeper and your boss is a fair individual he will soon give you a chance. most likely you will start off doing a small job, then work your way into the larger contracts. I have held virtually every position available at my current company except owner. started as an apprentice, moved up to J-Man working under project foreman, then to small commercial, then large projects in the million dollar range.I spent 4 years as a service electrician between small comm and large. Currently I am the Service and Residential manager. I chose to stay working for "the man" because he is a great guy to work for, provides good health insurance and many other bennies that I just do not want to do without.

 

[tonyou812]

I think the most important thing you can do is to have a full understanding of what the job entails. Take the prints home if you can and study them as best you can, and try to know the job inside and out. It is very important that you keep it moving forward, meaning make sure your guys always have work to do. And make sure you have the materials when you need them. Alot of times when you order something dont assume that they will always be available when you need them.

In the past when I worked for other EC's I would take the prints home to study them , make material lists, assign tasks to apprentices and such, and other guys would say to me "why are you taking them home? work is from 7:00 to 4:00 after 4:00 its my time". But my feeling was if you want to get ahead you need to do things like this. And it wasnt uncommon to find mistakes or things that might present a problem later on. And its always good to go into the next day with a plan B and C in case your work schedule wont work for that given day.Anyway I hope this helps you out.

 

[ITO]

Tony nailed it.

My best foremen have the following qualities:
1) Then tend to know more about the job than, the GC does. Its not enough to just know electrical and the study the plans hard.
2) They ask more questions than my PMs do.
3) They handle people very well.
4) They still wear their tools, and use them.
5) They stay 3 steps ahead of the other trades.

 

[cschmid]

I am a journeyman electrician with 5 years experience, 3 residential and 2 commercial. I am currently doing commercial wiring and am looking to fast track up the payscale. I do understand experience and time are the best way to learn, but I have the ability to learn and am impatient. I plan on trying to take in enough on my next two or three jobs to maybe taking on a job from the ground up. What would be the best way to layout a job? I understand different jobs are going to have different specs, but are there standard steps to laying out a job that one does every job?

I don't understand what your trying to fastrack..lets see you don't go into wiring a house / business blind it was bid you need to understand the the bid and what was bid and how..in order for you to do the job you need to be taken aside an have the bid explained and then you get to plan the process..You are now going to manage the materials the labor the change orders the clean up and what if your coworker calls in sick then what..there is more to it than being a good and fast electricain..hey if you are good and fast maybe try some piece work and See if you can make more money..If you can negotiate your surroundings then maybe you can make a good job boss..

 

[bradleyelectric]

The fastest track up the payscale is to take your masters test and hang your own shingle.

Absolutely. Take the masters and start raking it in. Until some bills come due anyway. 5 years experience is almost enough to get yourself in trouble. not enough time to take the masters in MD.

 

[mdshunk]

Think 4 steps ahead at all times, and have a plan 'B' for each and every guy of yours to go to at any given time. This is a little bit hard to do if you havn't "been there, done that", but is possible if your're sharp and study the plans.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Tony nailed it.

My best foremen have the following qualities:
1) Then tend to know more about the job than, the GC does. Its not enough to just know electrical and the study the plans hard.
2) They ask more questions than my PMs do.
3) They handle people very well.
4) They still wear their tools, and use them.
5) They stay 3 steps ahead of the other trades.

1. I agree, adding understanding prints as vital. All of the trades on the prints, not just electrical.

2. Asking questions does not say how "dumb" you may be, in the long run it shows how intelligent you are.

3. People skills are not stressed enough. There are some who lack in that department, yet still put a good job together, that is rare though.

4. I do not believe that in any larger jobs a foreman can work with the tools. I guess it really comes down to how many men are under his supervision and how fast the job is moving.

5. Staying ahead of the project is a skill. It takes knowledge of the process, the shop you work for, the men under you, the other trades you are working with, knowing the plans and being as flexible as the time will permit.
Plan, plan, plan. Planning is the key.
Proper planning works even better when you can surround yourself with people as good as you or better, learning how to use them to the best of their skills.

 

[quogueelectric]

How long it will take to do the job and the material it will take to complete it is no mystery.
There are thousands of records from gcs on how long it takes to do almost anything. Material costs are cut and dry.
Employers tend to have an idealistic aproach on what thier men are doing in the field because thier foreman take them on a fantasy tour of the job and tell them what they want to hear.
ALRIGHT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS SENTENCE>>>> This happens because they are not there.
Once the employer leaves the site the whole fantasy evaporates in my opinion. I wish that video were implemented more to truly show what goes on on jobsites. It is becoming more cost efective to do this and will eliminate the current practice of the biggest bser running the nuthouse.
It is simple you need people who are honest and have basic principles not to steal customers and material from you.
It is not easy if it was easy they would have electricians doing it.

 

[mike johnson]

Wow.

Wow.

In the past when I worked for other EC's I would take the prints home to study them , make material lists, assign tasks to apprentices and such, and other guys would say to me "why are you taking them home? work is from 7:00 to 4:00 after 4:00 its my time". But my feeling was if you want to get ahead you need to do things like this. And it wasnt uncommon to find mistakes or things that might present a problem later on. And its always good to go into the next day with a plan B and C in case your work schedule wont work for that given day.Anyway I hope this helps you out.

Wow. This is great advice and reminds me of me when i was an employee. I thought i was the only one who experienced this type of dedication. One thing i can say is it sure paid off and the guys who used to say to me why are you taking the plans home are still working at the same place in the same position asking me if they can fill out one of my applications to work for me.:grin:

 

[quogueelectric]

Wow. This is great advice and reminds me of me when i was an employee. I thought i was the only one who experienced this type of dedication. One thing i can say is it sure paid off and the guys who used to say to me why are you taking the plans home are still working at the same place in the same position asking me if they can fill out one of my applications to work for me.:grin:

No good deed goes unpunished.

 

[mkgrady]

Two things I would suggest:

Always have a place to write things down. When I'm walking around I use my PDA where I can scratch notes. This used to be a pocket notebook. In my vehicle I have a notebook available so I can jot quick notes while I'm driving.

Managing your job materials and tools. Keep records of what you ordered. You will often receive the wrong materials. Avoid last minute deliveries because they will often deliver late. Create false deadlines with your suppliers, you need the cushion. Check all deliveries as they arrive. Reject delivery of the wrong materials and re-order the correct materials right away. That cushion will come in handy. Have a plan B for when you need to switch gears

 

[Joe Villani]

By far the greatest loss of money comes from foreman who doesnt prepare the proper material for the job.
Most people who are professional want to give a good days work and when the inept foreman does not have the tools or material for the job it just takes the wind out of everyones sails and is lose lose all around.
It makes the employee who does not have the material to do the job very frustrated and results in the blame game to the boss for all the lost time and positive attitude.

This is an excellent response. Most men come to work to complete a task. When they can complete this task effeciently, their attitude improves, and their production will go up also.

Most Forman ( depending on the size of the job ) don't realize that they are no longer in the "production" business. My job is to make the men produce, this includes having the right material in the right place, having an apprentice check on who needs materials. STEPS COST DOLLARS. On a poorly run job all you do is walk, and production suffers.

I take the plans home, spray paint my homeruns on the floor, (if possible). You might want to clear coat them so they don't wear off.

I make life easy for the men on the job, they don't look at the prints, thats my job, I give them pictures of stuff I want built. I want to limit to some degree thinking so they can focus on production.

Joe Villani

 

[BryanMD]

I make life easy for the men on the job, they don't look at the prints, thats my job, I give them pictures of stuff I want built. I want to limit to some degree thinking so they can focus on production.

Bingo!
(And bingo! to several of the other great posts prior.)

As wonderful as it is for the guys on site to be code (and job spec!*) knowledged, in the middle of the day's work is NOT when the production people should need to be asking questions.

Your job is to 'facilitate' their ability to produce for you.
A quick gang box announcement (NOT a chat!) on Monday morning to line out what is happening that week and who will be doing what, and what you have already determined to be the hiccups or potential conflicts or other issues to be mindful of.

Be available (and encouraging) to answer the questions that do come up and especially when guys you don't know are introduced to your crew. Very often a 'new guy' is used to doing things a way that is fine, but it just isn't HOW you (or your company) want it done. It isn't his fault he doesn't know your preferences unless you have shown him what you want.


* Job Specs. Make up your own spec book with one lines and sketches of particular details (elevations etc) and the "typical" assemblies that will be repeated throughout the job. This is also useful if your company has standard ways of doing things; even routine stuff like troffers and receptacles. One place I know of titled their company wide assembly book "get used to it".

Good luck.

 

[Greg Swartz]

By far the greatest loss of money comes from foreman who doesnt prepare the proper material for the job.

Well said!

Most people who are professional want to give a good days work and when the inept foreman does not have the tools or material for the job it just takes the wind out of everyones sails and is lose lose all around.

I absolutely agree

It makes the employee who does not have the material to do the job very frustrated and results in the blame game to the boss for all the lost time and positive attitude.

Oh how true!

You can look busy all day and still be wasting money when it is not laid out properly.

Been there!

 

[ITO]

4. I do not believe that in any larger jobs a foreman can work with the tools. I guess it really comes down to how many men are under his supervision and how fast the job is moving.

Good foremen tend to spend less time with tools in their hands on bigger jobs, but they also need to be able to walk it like they talk it, and during production phases (like hanging lights) everybody works, even sometimes me.

Every single one of my good foremen were first class mechanics before they wore the foreman's hat, and every single one of them can work circles around the other guys and need to be able to step in if they have to to make things happen.

 

[cschmid]

I know it makes me feel good when I go out and bust my butt and out work the young guys..I still do allot of odd jobs like haul the welder out and do some welding..I do still like to fabricate stuff..

whether you are good at electrical work or not is not the real trait..it is being well rounded..You also need to know when you are out of your league and get professional assistance..a positive outlook is the best thing you got going for you..:smile: allot and build up instead of tear down..

 

[dduffee260]

Fastest way I found out to make money was to become a good stockpicker. The best way to make a small fortune in the electrical business is start with a large one.