LED Driver/Power Pack

[Little Bill]

I installed some LED tape lights under kitchen cabinets. These were Kichler 24V LED tape/ribbon lights. I installed a 60W LED power pack,also Kichler brand. The run was about 20' but only 10' of actual ribbon. The rating of the LEDs were 3W per foot, so I had 30W total. The instructions said not to run the lights more than 20', which I was within that. I didn't run the tape through each section of cabinets, I stopped at each section and attached wire to go through the bottom edge. The run across blank areas, such as over stove or sink, was run in the wall. To make sure I had all the connections correct I tried the lights at each break in the tape where I transitioned to wire.

The lights worked at every section until I got to the next to last one, or about 8' from the end then they quit. I first thought I had a bad connection but noticed all the lights were out so I knew it wasn't a single bad connection between points. I went back to the driver and checked the voltage. I had right at 120V in but only 1.9V DC out. So I figure the driver has failed.
My question is, would just trying small sections at a time have anything to do with the driver failing since it is rated for 60W and I was driving less that 30W at the time? At no time was the switch ever on while making connections. I only turned on the switch after connections were made to make sure they worked. So I know I didn't short anything.

 

[480sparky]

My money's on a defective driver. Get it replaced under warranty and call it a day.

 

[Little Bill]

My money's on a defective driver. Get it replaced under warranty and call it a day.

Already contacted the vendor, just waiting for a reply.

 

[texie]

Reverse polarity? Don't know if they have reverse polarity protection.

 

[Little Bill]

Reverse polarity? Don't know if they have reverse polarity protection.

I double checked on every connection for that. Also made sure the AC (line/neutral) were correct before powering up.

 

[James L]

The lights worked at every section until I got to the next to last one, or about 8' from the end then they quit. I first thought I had a bad connection but noticed all the lights were out so I knew it wasn't a single bad connection between points. I went back to the driver and checked the voltage. I had right at 120V in but only 1.9V DC out. So I figure the driver has failed.

Are you saying some of the lights worked, then suddenly none of the lights worked?

Curious also if you used a dimmer w/dimmable power supply. Kichler recommends at least 50% load with at least some of their drivers when used with most dimmers they recommend.

But I've never seen less-than-minimum load damage the output voltage of the driver. Just usually causes blinking.

This is from Kichler. Is this your driver?
See list of dimmers in comments, and see asterisks

6TD 24V Dimmable 60W Power Supply Black

This 24V, 60W dimmable tape light power supply regulates power. It controls voltage fluctuations by allowing only the voltage needed to power the tape

www.kichler.com

 

[rainwater01]

I only turned on the switch after connections were made to make sure they worked. So I know I didn't short anything.

I feel like I plugged in a little 12 volt transformer once, tested the load, unplugged it from the power source and then cut the wire to length (cutting both wires at the same time). It shorted the transformer out and ruined it. I don’t know if every transformer is susceptible to that but I’ve been very careful not to short a transformer load after it’s had power applied to it ever since then.


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[Little Bill]

Are you saying some of the lights worked, then suddenly none of the lights worked?

Curious also if you used a dimmer w/dimmable power supply. Kichler recommends at least 50% load with at least some of their drivers when used with most dimmers they recommend.

But I've never seen less-than-minimum load damage the output voltage of the driver. Just usually causes blinking.

This is from Kichler. Is this your driver?
See list of dimmers in comments, and see asterisks

6TD 24V Dimmable 60W Power Supply Black

This 24V, 60W dimmable tape light power supply regulates power. It controls voltage fluctuations by allowing only the voltage needed to power the tape

www.kichler.com

That is the driver I have. It seems this driver has been discontinued according to one site and others had bad reviews. All of the LED tape lights were customer supplied. I got the driver that was recommended. Yes, the sections that I had installed all worked. When I was trying the next to last section is when I turned on the switch and none of the previously working lights came on. I used a Lutron CL dimmer, which was on the list.

I feel like I plugged in a little 12 volt transformer once, tested the load, unplugged it from the power source and then cut the wire to length (cutting both wires at the same time). It shorted the transformer out and ruined it. I don’t know if every transformer is susceptible to that but I’ve been very careful not to short a transformer load after it’s had power applied to it ever since then.


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None of the tape was connected when it was cut. I measure each piece and cut it before connecting. As I said, at no time did I turn on the switch while making connections.

 

[retirede]

My money's on a defective driver. Get it replaced under warranty and call it a day.

I second.

 

[rainwater01]

That is the driver I have. It seems this driver has been discontinued according to one site and others had bad reviews. All of the LED tape lights were customer supplied. I got the driver that was recommended. Yes, the sections that I had installed all worked. When I was trying the next to last section is when I turned on the switch and none of the previously working lights came on. I used a Lutron CL dimmer, which was on the list.


None of the tape was connected when it was cut. I measure each piece and cut it before connecting. As I said, at no time did I turn on the switch while making connections.

Neither did I. I was shortening the output wire which was molded to the transformer so it couldn’t be disconnected. It wasn’t plugged in either. Just a little bit of stored energy. You could easily have a defective transformer too. My transformer was probably more like 15 watts so very sensitive.


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[rainwater01]

I see what you’re saying. That’s how I do mine too.


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[James L]

That is the driver I have. It seems this driver has been discontinued according to one site and others had bad reviews. All of the LED tape lights were customer supplied. I got the driver that was recommended. Yes, the sections that I had installed all worked. When I was trying the next to last section is when I turned on the switch and none of the previously working lights came on. I used a Lutron CL dimmer, which was on the list.

On one of Lutron web pages, the tech support people say use ELV dimmer instead of just an LED dimmer. However, several CL dimmers are listed as compatible. Not the same wattage as yours, but same line. Someone else in those comments mentioned their driver only working 5 minutes and had to be replaced. Scroll down to the comments on this page...

6TD 24V Dimmable 96W Power Supply Black

This 24V, 96W dimmable tape light power supply regulates power. It controls voltage fluctuations by allowing only the voltage needed to power the tape

www.kichler.com

 

[ELA]

Have you measured/monitored the 24Vdc supplies current?
You can then observe the current demand as sections are added/subtracted.
You want to be sure the supply is not going into a current limit mode.

 

[Little Bill]

UPDATE
So I was about to box up the driver to return it and just thought I would see what the voltage from my shop was and if that made any difference on the DC side of the driver. My voltage was about 2V higher than at the house where the driver was to be used, so I have 121.4V. I then checked the DC side, and to my surprise, I had the required 24V DC. I know the 2V AC didn't make it magically get the 24V DC.

The only difference here is I'm not running through a dimmer nor do I have any load on the DC side. So my thought is either the driver fails after being on for a while, it needs a load, or doesn't like the dimmer. Either way, since it's already quit once, I'm still returning it and using a different driver.
Thoughts as to why it appears to be working now?
I don't have a load here to test it under load.

 

[James L]

Thoughts as to why it appears to be working now?
I don't have a load here to test it under load.

My guess is it doesn't like the dimmer. I read on one of the Kichler pages I posted, one of the techs commented to use elv dimmer. That's reverse phase dimming

I didn't look through the approved list of dimmers, but it was long. Almost certainly having some triac (forward phase) dimmers on the list, too. That's probably what you have, even though they know it's not quite optimum

 

[Little Bill]

The documentation I got said that a C-L Lutron dimmer would work, and that's what I used. What bothers me is that it worked for a while then just quit. Now it seems to be working, although no dimmer or load.
What really would be ideal is a 0-10 dimmer but there is no control wire ran to the switch. I roughed this in for a completely different set of under cabinet lights and when I was doing the trim-out they presented me with the LED tape lights but no driver. I had to search and provide the dimmer and this is what was suggested without having a control wire.

 

[James L]

The documentation I got said that a C-L Lutron dimmer would work, and that's what I used. What bothers me is that it worked for a while then just quit. Now it seems to be working, although no dimmer or load.
What really would be ideal is a 0-10 dimmer but there is no control wire ran to the switch. I roughed this in for a completely different set of under cabinet lights and when I was doing the trim-out they presented me with the LED tape lights but no driver. I had to search and provide the dimmer and this is what was suggested without having a control wire.

I thought, by looking at how long a dimmer list they showed, that some CL dimmers were certainly on that list. I was a bit surprised to see their tech support making a comment about making sure to use an ELV dimmer.

I think having the different phase shifting is causing the issue. Basically, I think the options are to buy an ELV dimmer and use that driver, or keep the dimmer you have and buy a TRIAC dimmable driver.

I've used this brand a lot, never had any problems...

https://smile.amazon.com/LEDUPDATES-Dimmable-driver-Standard-Dimmers/dp/B01MXIFTMO/ref=sr_1_5?crid=23H87ZQ0VTTNG&dchild=1&keywords=ledupdates+24v+dimmable+led+light+triac+power+supply&qid=1608503749&sprefix=LED+updates+24v%2Caps%2C232&sr=8-5

 

[Little Bill]

The dimmer you linked to looks good. The problem with using it is I only stubbed the switch leg and control wire out above the upper cabinet area, I don't have a receptacle or junction box. I could possibly add a surface mnt receptacle in the upper cabinet as the area above will be covered.

I found the list and the dimmer I got is on the list, which is the Lutron DVCL-153P

Dimmers for 24V 60 Watt & 96 Watt Power Supply 6TD24
6TD24V96BKT
Recommended Dimmers
The following dimmers have been tested and demonstrate acceptable dimming behavior between 100% -10% of the max rated load
recommended dimmers for these products

Lutron
PD-6WCL
GL-600
D-600R
S-603P
SELV-303P
GT-150
DVCL-153P

*Recommended for 100%-50% Load
**Recommended for 100%-25% Load
Thank you for contacting Kichler.

 

[James L]

I typically place a receptacle in a lower cabinet. Preferably sink cabinet, but if not I put one at 28" to top of box in another cabinet, and stub wires next to it.

But earlier this year I had a customer who wanted me to stub it above the cabinet. When I went back to do the finish, he supplied his own LED strips and Driver, which was a plug-in block. So I put a surface mounted plug above the cabinet, and he didn't like it because he could see it. So I cut a plug into the wall, and he didn't like it because he could see it. So then I cut a plug into the back of the upper cabinet, drilled a hole in the top to run the low voltage wire in, and made the connections inside the cabinet. And he didn't like the way it looked inside the cabinet

 

[ELA]

UPDATE

The only difference here is I'm not running through a dimmer nor do I have any load on the DC side.
I don't have a load here to test it under load.

That is a big difference ...
Test Under load and measure the DC current to confirm you are not going into current limit mode using the install site loading.