LED lighting AFCI and ferrite chokers

[kwired]

So a gfi receptacle is tripping too? Have your electrician check for voltage between the neutral and ground at that panel, then check resistance between neutral and ground. I have a feeling you may have a grounding/bonding issue, along with a fault somewhere.

GFCI shouldn't care about neutral to ground voltage, only current differential between the two circuit conductors.

If it is tripping GFCI might be some distortion issues it doesn't handle well possibly caused by dimmers as previously mentioned.

 

[hillbilly1]

GFCI shouldn't care about neutral to ground voltage, only current differential between the two circuit conductors.

If it is tripping GFCI might be some distortion issues it doesn't handle well possibly caused by dimmers as previously mentioned.

If there is a fault, and the return path is intermittent, then it will care. No current will flow until the path is returned.

 

[kwired]

If there is a fault, and the return path is intermittent, then it will care. No current will flow until the path is returned.

That would create a "non trip" condition when it should have tripped vs a trip when it shouldn't have.

My point was GFCI's respond to current not voltage, and it is only current through conductors that are monitored by the device. Only time neutral to ground voltage would matter is if it significantly effects current flow during a fault, usually would be a neutral to ground fault where the ground conductor is open for some reason.

 

[winnie]

I read the post to mean the electrician installed a new AFCI protected circuit feeding a single GFCI receptacle, and that the AFCI was tripping.

 

[macmikeman]

Random installation of ferrite chokes can sometimes be a danger. They need to be carefully selected to prevent overheating issues or harmonic interference issues.

 

[hillbilly1]

That would create a "non trip" condition when it should have tripped vs a trip when it shouldn't have.

My point was GFCI's respond to current not voltage, and it is only current through conductors that are monitored by the device. Only time neutral to ground voltage would matter is if it significantly effects current flow during a fault, usually would be a neutral to ground fault where the ground conductor is open for some reason.

I read the post to mean the electrician installed a new AFCI protected circuit feeding a single GFCI receptacle, and that the AFCI was tripping.

I’m assuming the electrician added the gfi on the circuit that was giving trouble, and was using the load side to narrow it down to wether it was an arc fault or a ground fault. But since the electrician is not the op, we can only guess at what they had done.

 

[synchro]

... I should also add I have flickering of lights on a ceiling fan with normal bulbs, which is on the same circuit as one of my LEDs. It doesn't cause anything to trip, but the flickering is odd, considering it doesn't coincide with the AC turning on or any other large load starting in the house.

Your air conditioning and other large loads that use 240V will draw little or no current from the neutral bus in the panel. And so if there's a poor connection to the service neutral, starting these loads will not effect the voltage drop on the neutral. But you may get light flickering from changing currents on 120V loads because they flow through the panel's neutral bus.

 

[Cutima]

Little update: I'm pretty positive it's the dimmers. I went 6 days without a trip, which is a 7 month high. Little by little I added a combination of LED lights throughout the house and everything held until I tried one with dimmers. I put the dimmer in the middle, and as soon as my mini-fridge cycled on with the compressor, it tripped that circuit tripped. If that's the case, and it seems that other people have had this issue, I'm not sure how to go about fixing it. This thread below has some talk about blocking some of the RF with a lamp debuzzing coil, but I'm really not sure how many of these I would need and where exactly to place them.

The resistance of a poor connection to the service neutral would also allow the noisy and distorted current from dimmers, etc. to induce a noise voltage on the neutral bus in the panel. That noise voltage could then modulate the currents feeding loads on AFCI breakers in the panel, which could then trip trip them if the load current exceeds the 5A threshold spec for series arc detection.

This seems like a possibility, since it's related to the dimmers. Thing is, the circuits were tripping before my current electrician replaced the panel, and that panel, itself, was a brand new panel. That's two new panels from two different electricians, so I don't think they're installing it poorly.

 

[Cutima]

I’m assuming the electrician added the gfi on the circuit that was giving trouble, and was using the load side to narrow it down to wether it was an arc fault or a ground fault. But since the electrician is not the op, we can only guess at what they had done.

What the electrician did was add a new circuit right outside the panel box. It is using an AFCI breaker, not a combo breaker--same as most of the other Seaman's AFCI breakers in may panel. He did make the receptacle a GFCI just because it was next to a basin in the basement. It trips, but only with heavy-ish loads on it. I can keep a phone charger on it, but if I add an iron it will trip IF my LED lights with dimmers are on in the house. The receptacle is the only outlet on that circuit and that circuit uses brand new wiring.

 

[winnie]

If I understand @synchro 's suggestion, the idea is that there is some sort of high resistance on the neutral feeding the home, on the utility side of the breaker panel. This resistance somehow causes the current signature of the dimmed LED circuits to show up on the heavily loaded circuits. The heavily loaded circuits are then tripping because of a combination of the LED current signature and the load current.

This _might_ be a utility problem, or it might be something like long service conductors.

But honestly, with the same problem showing up on two panels installed by two separate electricians, I think you've got a definitive case of false tripping.

IMHO this is a job for the breaker manufacturer to remedy. They should be supplying diagnostic tools and paying the electrician to diagnose further. Unfortunately my opinion holds no weight with them.

 

[kwired]

What the electrician did was add a new circuit right outside the panel box. It is using an AFCI breaker, not a combo breaker--same as most of the other Seaman's AFCI breakers in may panel. He did make the receptacle a GFCI just because it was next to a basin in the basement. It trips, but only with heavy-ish loads on it. I can keep a phone charger on it, but if I add an iron it will trip IF my LED lights with dimmers are on in the house. The receptacle is the only outlet on that circuit and that circuit uses brand new wiring.

GFCI's don't respond to high current, they respond to current flowing outside the intended circuit pathway. They sometimes will have issues with solid state high frequency switching components at about any current level, not too likely that applies to your iron, I think. Maybe they have solid state controlled ones nowadays?

 

[Little Bill]

I think we given all the info we can without getting into DIY. I believe an electrician should handle it from here.
Good Luck!