LED Recessed lights

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http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073988049&sequence=1

This category also includes retrofit kits consisting of light-emitting-diode (LED) light sources intended to replace a fluorescent lamp and where it is necessary to modify the luminaire. The modification may involve removing the fluorescent lamp ballast or rewiring lampholders within the luminaire in order to power the LED light source. A luminaire that is modified so it can no longer accept the original lamp has a label affixed (provided by the retrofit kit manufacturer) indicating the luminaire has been modified and can no longer operate the originally intended lamp(s).
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Why just " intended to replace a fluorescent lamp" ??

And Dennis , great minds think alike :smile:
 
mkgrady said:
I updated Adobe Reader from 7.0 to 9.0 and now I can open the links at the site.
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Interesting ... I downloded it and looked at "Properties"; says Adobe Reader 6 is sufficient. I'm running 6 as I find the later to be slower by lots. I wonder what the REAL problem is.
 
electricmanscott said:
Did you try calling the manufacturers rather than relying on a bunch of yahoos on a message board?
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I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the issues before I contact them. You yahoos have taught me a lot over the years (this is where I would insert the green guy with the big grin, if I could figure out how).
 
electricmanscott said:
That is exactly my point. Sounds like he's looking for a reason not to use this product. There it is.
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When my customer told me he wanted to use the LR6. He said they work in most 6" recess housings.

My first thought was that unless the LR6 was tested and listed by UL for all of the housings they claim are compatable (I counted 51 in their literature) then the LR6 and brand X, model Y housing does not meet code. I have been fishing for opinions that are the same or reasons why I am wrong.

After reading all the posts, I am going to tell my customer he needs to use a product made by one manufacturer.

One poster indicated the maker of the LR6 also makes a housing. I am going to look into that. Another poster indicated there are two manufacturers that make both the LED lamp/trim and the housings. I am going to look into that too.
 
I have found (with help from members here) that the manufacturer of the LR6 LED recess does indeed make a housing for new work. The data appears on the CREE website and the is dated 12/08 so this must be a new product. But here's the catch, the spec sheet has the similar lame certification that I posted earlier about the lamp/trim unit..."Tested and certified to UL standards".

Next I went to Juno's site (see post #21) and the following was copied from the spec sheet:
Regulatory Listings include:

? UL and C-UL Listed
? UL and C-UL Listed for Damp Location and Wet
Location when used with Lensed Trims
? UL and C-UL Listed for Feed-Thru Wiring
? UL and C-UL Listed for Direct Contact with Insulation

I think I will steer my customer to Juno or Halo assumming Halo also has what seems like a real UL listing.
 
Grady,

I have the RC6 (Cree's housing specifically for the LR6) here, and there is a UL certification on the product itself.

I understand your frustration, but if you still have doubts, my recommendation would be to use the LR6 and the RC6 housing. I would also send feedback to CreeLLS.com that their spec sheets should elaborate on the listings and certifications. Admittedly, as a distributor, it has been frustrating to get updated literature on some of their products.

If you are considering the Halo LED product, I would encourage you to do a side-by-side comparison before making the recommendation to your customer.

Another poster talked about the quality of light from the LR6. There is a table in my demo case that breaks down fc's comparing incandescent, cfl and the LR6. It emphasizes what that poster talked about:

  • Horizontal illuminance: 27fc (65W inc.); 33fc (18W CFL); 31fc (12W LR6)
  • Wall illuminance: 10fc (inc); 15fc (CFL); 18fc (LR6)

I hope this helps you. Good luck.
 
winderlumen said:
Grady,

I have the RC6 (Cree's housing specifically for the LR6) here, and there is a UL certification on the product itself.
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I agree the manufacturer implies it is somehow UL listed but the way they demonstrate it is not credible. Here is the exact wording used as a bullet item under Specifications and Features..."Tested and certified to UL standards. Suitable for damp locations."
 
I guess I am not "green." LED's are simply not ready yet!!! Reliability stinks (think traffic signals) and they are WAY overpriced! And if that's not enough, they are nowhere near the efficiency of fluorescent.

I have had people want to put them in and it didn't take much to convince them otherwise.

RC
 
I have been wanting to install them but have yet to find a client willing to spend that kind of money. The cost difference is significant compared to a regular IC rated can.

I have installed over 50 P87AT's in recent remodel jobs and no one has taken me up on the offer to upgrade to LED. Cost being the #1 factor.
 
Ragin Cajun said:
I guess I am not "green." LED's are simply not ready yet!!! Reliability stinks (think traffic signals) and they are WAY overpriced! And if that's not enough, they are nowhere near the efficiency of fluorescent.

I have had people want to put them in and it didn't take much to convince them otherwise.

RC
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are you sure flourescents are more efficient? I don't think so.
 
Fluorescent lamps are upwards of 80 lumens per watt.
The best commercially available LED's are 40 lumens per watt.

With that in mind, I seriously question data sheets claiming otherwise.

Reliability? Again, look at all the LED traffic lights that are failing. I see them everywhere here.

IMHO
 
Ragin Cajun said:
Fluorescent lamps are upwards of 80 lumens per watt.
The best commercially available LED's are 40 lumens per watt.

With that in mind, I seriously question data sheets claiming otherwise.
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Here, I have to point to another Cree product, the LR24, a 2' x 2' LED lay-in. Recently installed at the Federal Reserve and The Pentagon, it comes in two versions: 3200 lumens @ 48 Watts (67 lm/W) and 3800 lumens @ 58 Watts (66 lm/W). Check out the press releases and spec sheets at www.CreeLLS.com.

Some LED applications ARE ready, but there's so much garbage to sift through out there that the technology begins to lose credibility. That's why we decided to specialize in LED - to be the filter for our customers.
 
Since this one is still going, have you considered using a fixture manufatured as an LED rather than putting various parts together to make your own? :-?

This may have been brought up already.
 
electricmanscott said:
Since this one is still going, have you considered using a fixture manufatured as an LED rather than putting various parts together to make your own? :-?

This may have been brought up already.
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So much time was eaten up by the customer wanting me to get his selection approved, I told him we had to move on or his job would be held up. So he directed me to put in Halo housings with the idea that I would install standard bulbs and trims if he couldn't determine Cree LED lamp/trims would meet UL.
 
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