LETS PLAY INSPECTOR...Again

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ZZZ said:
On a similar note if we replace a panel here we are required to bring the entire house up to current codes with few exceptions. It makes for very difficult and expensive upgrades, but it has been that way for many years. .
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That is one of the supidist things I have ever read here and there are many, most of them from my own fingers. :D
 
Actually the workmanship is appalling. Too many "electricians" in this country are just slapping together half-assed crap jobs and hurrying onto the next one. Sure you're going to have to live with this job for possibly the life of the structure but who cares!

If it's a violation fix it.

If I had hired that EC that put that panel in I'd be furious at the EC and the inspector that passed the job once I found out what happened.
 
Twoskinsoneman said:
Actually the workmanship is appalling. Too many "electricians" in this country are just slapping together half-assed crap jobs and hurrying onto the next one. Sure you're going to have to live with this job for possibly the life of the structure but who cares!

If it's a violation fix it.

If I had hired that EC that put that panel in I'd be furious at the EC and the inspector that passed the job once I found out what happened.
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I agree 100%. If this mess was somehow allowed to pass then i would be going after the EC and the inspector. Somehow i am thinking this might be a panel that got changed without a permit or inspection. Once worked for an EC that would have me cut a live drop and do panel changes without permit. If Pierre pushes this issue far enough someone is in for a bad day. The owner of this building should know who did this job unless he bought it this way and then he could go back to the seller. High time that we get electricians like this out of the field. Let the s--- hit the fan. It does not meet code and that panel is not old.
 
In NJ there are limitations on what we can fail if it has already passed inspection by another inspector unless we meet a more stringent standard of an unsafe structure. But I would at least state that the panel is in noncompliance and as such no additional circuits will be approved coming from this noncompliant panel. If this panel had passed inspection I would be tempted to turn the inspector over to the state for a license review.
 
I think I'd check the records to see if a permit was applied for since the posted manufactured date on the NM. Then maybe violate the property owner with an order to correct and give a specific time frame depending upon the severity of the violations.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Karl
I do not touch the installers work, if I need a panel opened or any other work, I request the contractor have a person there to do the work.
It is our understanding from our attorney, that if we do damage touching someone elses work, we own the install and damage.
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I completely understand.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Karl
I do not touch the installers work, if I need a panel opened or any other work, I request the contractor have a person there to do the work.
It is our understanding from our attorney, that if we do damage touching someone elses work, we own the install and damage.
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Thats a good policy to follow Pierre. Anything can happen removing a cover and reinstalling it. Could be a simple as losing a cover screw or something much worse.
 
Mule said:
Didnt read all of the post, but at a glance, the installation would probably function within the intent of the code (excluding UL issues). I think it looks terrible,very un-workman like, and I would not want my local inspector approving it, because I have to compete with it,:D although the installer probably took more than average labor units ......But functional and safe? I'd say yes.....need a cover on those duplex's....heck the panel in my $70,000 RV is installed horizontal........:smile:
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Does the door open the way this panel does, and if so is there something other than a person to hold it open? I'd be concerned about the having to hold it open and arc flash issues on the one in Pierre's pics.
 
This is definitely a "creative" install. For the panel, I am curious about what you would think of 408.3 E. Technically, the phase arrangement is in the correct order. Just a thought.....

Revised my thought.
 
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daleuger said:
Does the door open the way this panel does, and if so is there something other than a person to hold it open? I'd be concerned about the having to hold it open and arc flash issues on the one in Pierre's pics.
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I hate the door, it opens upward, my wife trips the breaker with her hair dryer while coffee is on, and I literaly have to feel for the tripped handle unless I want to lay down on the floor.....:rolleyes:

Im not supporting the installation in this thread at all, I was just saying its not near as bad as alot of non-electrician installations.........My thoughts are with Pierre as the previous inspector should have his rear kicked for approving it. Once installations are approved, the likelyhood of it remaining for years and years is strong.....This stuff gets covered up with sheetrock, and nobody knows what's underneath...Property owners change, tennants change, and everyone deserves a safe structure IMO....
 
Mule said:
I hate the door, it opens upward, my wife trips the breaker with her hair dryer while coffee is on, and I literaly have to feel for the tripped handle unless I want to lay down on the floor.....:rolleyes:

Im not supporting the installation in this thread at all, I was just saying its not near as bad as alot of non-electrician installations.........My thoughts are with Pierre as the previous inspector should have his rear kicked for approving it. Once installations are approved, the likelyhood of it remaining for years and years is strong.....This stuff gets covered up with sheetrock, and nobody knows what's underneath...Property owners change, tennants change, and everyone deserves a safe structure IMO....
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Not busting your chops, Mule. I was just curious.

That reminds me of a house I went into they were wondering why the dryer plug wouldn't work. The only 240 circuit in the panel was for the plug used for an AC in the living room. Couldn't even figure out where it was fed from and he had no idea. Later on he had the room renovated and inside the wall was a very small very old 40A disco inside the wall that was fed underground straight from the meter. The neutral and ground coming out of the disco to the plug were landed backwards.
 
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Of course this was also the same guy who couldn't figure why he had this one breaker that kept tripping. Come to find out he paid "handyman" type to change out his kitchen light. (Though I strongly suspect he did it and didn't want to own up to it.) Didn't even have to get to the panel to figure it out. Sticking out of the kitchen ceiling were 3 romexes nothing stripped, nothing capped off all taped together at the ends with about a 3 foot burn circle around them. :D
 
daleuger said:
Not busting your chops, Mule. I was just curious.

That reminds me of a house I went into they were wondering why the dryer plug wouldn't work. The only 240 circuit in the panel was for the plug used for an AC in the living room. Couldn't even figure out where it was fed from and he had no idea. Later on he had the room renovated and inside the wall was a very small very old 40A disco inside the wall that was fed underground straight from the meter. The neutral and ground coming out of the disco to the plug were landed backwards.
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Same story here but a bit different.....a tree fell taking down a riser on what used to be a retired inspectors house. On the back of the riser was a hole where 10/3 had been solder'd onto the service entrance conductors inside the riser. It was covered up by a home made riser strap made from sheetmetal. This 10/3 went across the attic and fed a window ac...NO protection what so ever, and upstream from the meter......:rolleyes:

Poco could not go back onto the inspector because he had passed away some years before....:)
 
I hate this install and I would try to find the inspector that wrote off on it and shown his supervisor what he is approving. EVERYONE should be accountable for thier work if I have to be.
 
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