Lever setting of a relay

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shoaib10

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Hello,

I am doing a short circuit study and i got this information from the utility...They are using a GE relay which has the settings as found in the attachment...I am trying to figure out the settings of the relay...Its a very old relay...Can anyone help me out on what does a lever setting correspond to in a relay?And what are the settings of those relays like tap settings..

Thanks in advance for answering my question...
 

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shoaib10

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Ron,

I already looked at that instruction manual...There is no description of what a lever setting corresponds to....I am looking for how do you get the settings of such a old relay...
 
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Ingenieur

Senior Member
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shoaib10 said:
Ron,

I already looked at that instruction manual...There is no description of what a lever setting corresponds to....I am looking for how do you get the settings of such a old relay...
Click to expand...


I read it too
imo the lever setting is where the contacts are set on the armature

I don't think you need that to model it
basically set it up as a toc trip
will trip sustained 1200 A
will trip in 0.3 sec at 13000 A
 
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shoaib10

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Ingenieur said:
I read it too
imo the lever setting is where the contacts are set on the armature

I don't think you need that to model it
basically set it up as a toc trip
will trip sustained 1200 A
will trip in 0.3 sec at 13000 A
Click to expand...

I am doing this study in SKM so when i picked up the relay from their library i have two options one is tap and other is time dial...I know that the tap is set at 5...I m scratching my head as to what does time dial corresponds to in that settings they sent me....And if you look at PJC relay they have a time dial for one of those...As far as i know PJC type relay is a instantaneous relay..I dont know what does lever setting for that corresponds to....:angel::angel:
 
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shoaib10

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Phil Corso said:
Shoab..

Read Page 12, "Example of setting"!

Regards, Phil Corso
Click to expand...

Phil thanks for pointing it out..After doing the calcs it looks like that the lever setting indeed corresponds to time dial which is like 2.15....but there is still an issue with PJC relay...They have a 2.15 time delay.But PJC is an instantaneous relay...
 
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shoaib10

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Location
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Ingenieur said:
May help
Click to expand...

Thanks Ingenieur for calcs...It did help...It looks like lever setting corresponds to time dial in their settings...But still there is a question about PJC relay for whih they have a time delay which doesnt make sense cause its a instantaneous relay....Any thoughts on that?
 
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Ingenieur

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shoaib10 said:
Thanks Ingenieur for calcs...It did help...It looks like lever setting corresponds to time dial in their settings...But still there is a question about PJC relay for whih they have a time delay which doesnt make sense cause its a instantaneous relay....Any thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

although they call it intantaneous it is more analogous to an inverse time with very short long times

http://www.electricalpartmanuals.co...Meters/General_Electric/Relays/GEI-28803B.pdf

model it as an instantaneous based on the curves in the link
at 2x setting <1 cycle depending on no/nc contacts
looks like no adjustments, factory set
https://gegridsolutions.com/products/brochures/pjc.pdf
 
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shoaib10

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Ingenieur said:
although they call it intantaneous it is more analogous to an inverse time with very short long times

http://www.electricalpartmanuals.co...Meters/General_Electric/Relays/GEI-28803B.pdf

model it as an instantaneous based on the curves in the link
Click to expand...

Yeah although they say that they open the contacts instantaneously there is a little bit of delay in milliseconds to open contacts...And if you look at the settings i attached they dont even have instantaneous set it is disconnected in their settings which is kinda strange...Idk what they use it for if they dont have any instantaneous set...
 
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Ingenieur

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What parameters does you program take?
for your relay
trip 275 A +15% (or close)
1.5x 1.2 cycles
5x 0.35
10x 0.25

not including cb response
 
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Phil Corso

Senior Member
Location
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shoaib10 said:
... As far as i know PJC type relay is a instantaneous relay...
Click to expand...

The table you cite says the” Instantaneous Element is disconnected!” Thus, paraphrasing the adage, “You can’t make a silk-purse from a sow’s ear”, you can’t make a “Time-Overcurrent Operating coil and magnet operate instantaneously!”

Phil
 
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shoaib10

Member
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Ingenieur said:
What parameters does you program take?
for your relay
trip 275 A +15% (or close)
1.5x 1.2 cycles
5x 0.35
10x 0.25

not including cb response
Click to expand...

When i picked up the breaker in the library it has only one setting i.e Instantaneous setting. Thats it...
I couldnt understand your calcs there...
 
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shoaib10

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Phil Corso said:
The table you cite says the” Instantaneous Element is disconnected!” Thus, paraphrasing the adage, “You can’t make a silk-purse from a sow’s ear”, you can’t make a “Time-Overcurrent Operating coil and magnet operate instantaneously!”

Phil
Click to expand...

Phil,
Yeah i can understand that there is a small amount of delay in operating the relay...But when your instantaneous is disconnected what are you gonna do with that relay?
 
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shoaib10

Member
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Ingenieur said:
That is the relay response
set it up as instantaneous with a 275 trip
Click to expand...
How did you come up with 275A trip?And also the one you are saying to set instantaneous at 275A they have it as disconnected.And i should tell you that these are the utility relays...
 
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shoaib10

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Ingenieur said:
From the set up instructions
the relay is ONLY instantaneous
Click to expand...

Thats what i am scratching my head for.Relay is instantaneous only...But they dont even have that..Its disconnected.I am thinking of sending them a question about whether their settings are right as they are mentioning in the letter.They have been scrappy at times...

And if you look at 1st ground relay which has a lever setting(time delay) of 2.15 which doesnt even make sense to me for a instantaneous relay..
 
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Ingenieur

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shoaib10 said:
Thats what i am scratching my head for.Relay is instantaneous only...But they dont even have that..Its disconnected.I am thinking of sending them a question about whether their settings are right as they are mentioning in the letter.They have been scrappy at times...

And if you look at 1st ground relay which has a lever setting(time delay) of 2.15 which doesnt even make sense to me for a instantaneous relay..
Click to expand...

I do not believe the chart
have them send pictures of the nameplate(s) and setting pins/adjustments
if you can't look yourself
https://gegridsolutions.com/products/brochures/pjc.pdf

the factory rating is 275
but it could have been field adjusted to 1/3 to 1-1/3 times that
you need to verify

Are the phase relay and the gf relay protection the same circuit?
 
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