LFMC being counted in the 360 rule when changing over from EMT.

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JoeQ

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Hey Ya?ll I?m new to this site and can?t believe I haven?t found it before now..my loss but now I?ve found it, cmon!
My question is this. I got into a discussion with another foreman concerning LFMC going into a motor. He ran 1 ?? EMT and then changed over to LFMC. The EMT portion of the run has 270 degrees of bends and as the conduit runs down the wall it changes over to LFMC. The LFMC makes a ?U? (or 90?s) going into the motor. I told him that he has more than 360 degrees of bends. He told me the LFMC doesn?t count in the bends as its being used to hook up equipment because its 6? long. I told him even though you change over to LFMC it still counts in the 360 rule. Can yall help me here.
 
I say you are correct, it really is a blend of 2 articles, and I see no exemption.


LFMC
350.26 Bends ? Number in One Run. There shall not be
more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees
total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and
boxes

EMT
358.26 Bends ? Number in One Run. There shall not be
more than the equivalent of four quarter bends (360 degrees
total) between pull points, for example, conduit bodies and
boxes.
 
jumper said:
I say you are correct, it really is a blend of 2 articles, and I see no exemption.

...
Click to expand...
Not an exemption (or exception)...

300.18 Raceway Installations.
(A) Complete Runs. Raceways, other than busways or exposed
raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall
be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing
points prior to the installation of conductors. Where required
to facilitate the installation of utilization equipment,
the raceway shall be permitted to be initially installed without
a terminating connection at the equipment. Prewired
raceway assemblies shall be permitted only where specifically
permitted in this Code for the applicable wiring
method.
Exception: Short sections of raceways used to contain conductors
or cable assemblies for protection from physical
damage shall not be required to be installed complete between
outlet, junction, or splicing points.
Click to expand...

The LFMC is considered the terminating connection.
 
It would depend on how the transition happens
350.26 Bends ? Number in One Run
There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter
bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example,
conduit bodies and boxes.
 
Johnmcca said:
It would depend on how the transition happens
350.26 Bends ? Number in One Run
There shall not be more than the equivalent of four quarter
bends (360 degrees total) between pull points, for example,
conduit bodies and boxes.
Click to expand...
I believe the query involves a transition which does not qualify as a typical pull point, i.e. an intermediary pull box or conduit body. One interpretation of 300.18 allows installing conductors in the EMT prior to adding the LFMC to connect to the equipment.
 
jumper said:
Fair enough.



Yeah, I have done it many times, exceeding the 360 rule a bit with flex at the end, I just do not think it is entirely kosher.
Click to expand...
Out of all the times you've done it, how many times (% okay) did you pull the wires directly into the peckerhead? In thinking back on my experiences, I'm inclined to say 0%.
 
I do it all the time, realizing it's technically a code violation. I haven't been called on it yet, everyone I know including myself, pulls the wire out of the hardpipe and pushes it down the flex most of the time anyhow. So you have a pullpoint, but just not the way the code sees it.

If I started to get called on it, I'd just start putting C's on the ends of my conduit runs.
 
iwire said:
I am also curious as if it is size I don't even think we can pull the conductors straight through and comply with sizing rules.
Click to expand...
The "straight pulls" title is a bit of a misnomer, but if you pull the conductors straight through, as in not out of the opening then back into the "C", then it is not used as a pull box. In such case, you can't count it as a pull point regarding 360? of bends limitation either.
 
When I saw that he had already pulled the wire though the raceway to the motor. I asked why didnt he use a C body and he said the LFMC wasn't included in the 360 rule. He used a EMT compression connector, rigid coupling and then LFMC connector for the transition. I told him he should have used a c body as the transition instead of the coupling and he'd be within code.

Thanks for the input. I'm not looking to cause an issue with my coworker just needed help or a different interpatation so I don't speak falsely or give the wrong answer.
 
I don't think it is a violation. The OP sort of implied that he was using straight fittings on the LT. What if you had a 90 in the LT, which is allowed, at the motor? It would not matter how many degrees of bend in the run, you are not going to pull through the 90, yet the code says this is OK to install, you just obviously can't pull through it. The intent of the 360 rule is to avoid damage on installation from point to point. A flex connection is separate from the point to point 360 rule for the immovable conduit.
 
Smart $ said:
The "straight pulls" title is a bit of a misnomer, but if you pull the conductors straight through, as in not out of the opening then back into the "C", then it is not used as a pull box. In such case, you can't count it as a pull point regarding 360? of bends limitation either.
Click to expand...

I thought a C boby is concidered a Jbox (whether you pulled straight through or pulled the wire out and then back into it) and thus would start the 360 rule at zero after the C body is installed.
 
texie said:
I don't think it is a violation. The OP sort of implied that he was using straight fittings on the LT. What if you had a 90 in the LT, which is allowed, at the motor? It would not matter how many degrees of bend in the run, you are not going to pull through the 90, yet the code says this is OK to install, you just obviously can't pull through it. The intent of the 360 rule is to avoid damage on installation from point to point. A flex connection is separate from the point to point 360 rule for the immovable conduit.
Click to expand...

for this installation he used straight LFMC connectors on both ends. So if he has 270 degrees in EMT and a U in the LFMC with straight ends on both ends of the LFMC. would he be in voliation of the 360 rule?
 
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