Licenced Electrician in NJ

[rich000]

I did not know where else to post this. Please forgive me if this is incorrect.

I heard that New Jersey is trying to pass a law that all electrical work must be performed by a licenced union electrician (replacing a switch, installing a ceiling fan, etc.). In order to buy electrical supplies from Home Depot or Lowes, or electrical supply houses, you would also have to be licenced.

Is this true? Great if you are an electrician, but bad if you are a homeowner.

 

[Len_B]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

Rich,
I lived in NJ for many years and a rumor like this doesn't surprise me---if something can be legislated, leave it to NJ or Mass. That said, I would imagine that a law could be passed restricting the scope of electrical work performed under homeowner exemptions (NJ requires all electrical work to be performed by licensed contractors, but allows homeowners to perform electrical work on their principle residence). Laws in some other states typically limit the homeowner to performing work on the load side of the service disconnect/panel.
I seriously doubt that a law could be passed requiring a licensed electrician/contractor to be a member of a union.
Restricting in any way the sale of electrical merchandise is ludicrous(therefore it could actually happen in Jersey). Could someone be charged with possession of over 25 receptacles with intent to install? Carrying a concealed wiggy? Perhaps only in New Jersey...

Len

[ March 04, 2003, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: Len_B ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

Was this New Jersey USA :roll: ? Sounds like crap to me. At least I would hope so. I don't want to start a union anti union debate but give me a break. :roll:

 

[lady sparks lover]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

I hope that is not true, I live in New Jersey, and I have yet to hear of that. That makes me angry, because what about a light switch or something simple.

 

[gramps]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

rumors like that ave been floating around for years. unless the state of new jersey secedes from the Union, and does away with the U.S. Constitution, i dont see it ever happening. kind of like the latest rumor about the AFL-CIO wanting to organize the U.S. Military...

gramps

 

[russ]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

I'll bet it's a case of some one hearing of a proposed state licensing act, and maybe the local union is in favor of it. Things do, somtimes have a way of morphing.
Just a guess.
Illinois is going thru this same thing.

Russ

 

[harold endean]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

I am a licensed electrical contractor and a licenesed electrical inspector here in NJ. I haven't heard of that law yet. I know that the state was trying to get alarm installers licensed. The new lic. would allow alarm people to work on alarms up to or less than 50 volts. (I believe) Even so, the alarm people are fighting that. There are other rules like we need 10 hours of CEU's to renew our lic. and the rumor is that want to push that up to 30 hrs every 3 years. THERE IS a law staing that if you work in a factory or company and want to do electrical work for your company, then would have to be a "Qualified Electrical Journeyman." That is by definition under NJ law staes you are qualified you are a person who has aquired 8,000 hours of practical experience...and who has had a minimum of 576 hours of classroom training.
This however doesn't stop anyone from going to Home Depot or Lowes and buying electrical parts or doing work in their own home. In NJ a homeowner can do work in their own homw as long as they own it, live in it, and it is single family. They also need permits and inspections like anyone else. BTW, there is another law that makes doing electrical work a 4th degree criminal offense IF you pass yourself off as a licensed electrical contractor and/or practice under false pretense.

[ March 04, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: harold endean ]

 

[goldstar]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

There was an issue that came up some time ago at my contractors' association meeting regarding this. I don't recall the exact wording but it had something to do with larger jobs (i.e. schools, post offices, etc.)being offered only to union contractors because they had the ability to draw a work force from the union hall and thereby provide larger work forces in an effort to get the job done in a more timely way. Many of the non-union contractors interpreted this as being discriminatory and filed grievances with the state. I don't believe anything like this was ever accepted by the state. If I learn differently, I'll post it.

As far as the "shopping at Home Depot" issue goes there were rumors that contractors' associations would have members stand outside various Home Depot locations and discourage independent contractors from buying electrical material there. I'm not sure what their reasoning was but if I had to guess it would probably be 1) that we (electrical contractors) should be supporting our supply houses rather than Home Depot who provide no other services to us other than prices that might be a few pennies less that our supply houses, 2) that Home Depot shouldn't be selling equipment such as breaker panels, service entrance cable, etc. and any other items that the normal homeowner shouldn't be encouraged to install on their own and 3) an effort to catch someone who is doing electrical work without a license.

Regards,

Phil Bufis
Gold Star Electric
Ringwood, NJ

[ March 05, 2003, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: goldstar ]

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

Here in Florida only the larger cities have "union" organization, but in a right to work state, I don't know how effective they are. As far as required licensing goes, I am for it. I don't necessarily think that changing a light bulb requires permitting and a qualified and trained worker to do the job, but most typical installations do. The problem is that it is very easy to get electricity to work. What is not easy for the untrained person is to get it to stop working when a hazard or fault arises. Most homeowners don't understand this concept. From 1994-1998, there were an average of 73,500 elcetrical house fires per year. As a result, nearly 591 deaths, 2,500 injuries, and damages at $1,050,000,000 on average each year. This is why I pay so much for insurance and liability protection. This is why apprenticeship programs cost several thousands of dollars per student. This is why something needs to be done. I have seen many times in my community where contractors have only hired non-licensed workers over journeyman because of the reduced labor costs and greater availability. I don't think changing the rules to enforce licensing at all levels is designed to hurt the electrician, but to enforce contractors to hire qualified electricians, to keep wages and benefits higher, to show some accountabliity for work performed. This also includes home improvement centers and stores as well. When paint or plubing fictures start killing and injuring people, maybr thoindustries will start receiving more regulation. Lets face it, the electrical industry is in a class of its own that needs special rules and regulations to ensure public safety. I feel it inevitable.

 

[Len_B]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

Originally posted by bphgravity:
This also includes home improvement centers and stores as well. When paint or plubing fictures start killing and injuring people, maybr thoindustries will start receiving more regulation. Lets face it, the electrical industry is in a class of its own that needs special rules and regulations to ensure public safety. I feel it inevitable.

I disagree.
Most states require plumbing contractors to be licensed. Additionally, heating systems(typically installed by licensed "Plumbing and Heating Contractors") are also responsible for many deaths and fires each year. Improper plumbing and/or heating installations can be very deadly: carbon monoxide poisoning; furnace/chimney fires; air and water born pathogens; e.g."legionaires disease", etc. Shoddy work performed in any trade can be a cause of injury or death. How many die from faulty carpentry? Stairs are the leading cause/place of death in the home. Should all carpenters be licensed? Then they could sit outside Big Orange Box looking for unlicensed carpenters with 2x12's who might be building stair stringers. Any electrical contractor who has the time to sit on his @$$ in front of the Big Orange Box telling other EC's not to shop there or looking for possible unlicensed contractors will probably need both a shrink and a bankruptcy attorney real soon.
I think it is a bit egotistical to classify the electrical trade as in a "class of its own". I don't honestly see electrical installations as any more or less complicated or dangerous than plumbing, pipefitting, iron work, carpentry or other trades when performed at an equivalent professional level and viewed in the context(residential through industrial) of each individual installation. We may wish to think we are special because we are electricians, and electricity is powerful, invisible, and misunderstood --- but the market ultimately determines were we stand in the elite scheme of things. We suffer from dillusion if we think otherwise.
As to special rules and regulations to ensure public safety regarding electricity, we already have one, the NEC.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

A 2x4 by itself can't kill you, a faucet fixture by itself won't kill you, a can of paint by itself can't kill you. Electricity by itself CAN kill you. I never stated or implied that any other trade doesn't have risks and dangers associated with installation and use. I also didn't say these industries don't need to be regulated and licensed. I don't care about the other trades. I know electricity, and I know that untrained and unlicensed workers have a greater record of installing incompliant and usafe electrical wiring and equipment. I have all the respect in the world for other trade workers and the jobs they do. Don't put words in my mouth and assume something I never stated. I said a class of its own, not a better or higher class. Every electrician should have accountability and be required to be licensed. Every electrician should be required to have extensive continuing education and comprehensive traning. Not just contractor owners and qualifiers. And I am sorry, the NEC is not enough.

 

[harold endean]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

Phil,

I heard about that feud between the union and non union people too. It only applied to with goverment type jobs where prvailing wages are paid. I can see where the non union people want to be able to bid on big goverment jobs. Yet, I can also see where the union people train their apprentices and they feel that a non union shop should also train the non union apprentices. As you said, I don't believe anything has been done yet.

 

[Len_B]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

bphgravity,

I do not feel that I "put words in your mouth". I quoted your post and disagreed with your opinion that, "When paint or plubing fictures start killing and injuring people, maybr thoindustries will start receiving more regulation. Lets face it, the electrical industry is in a class of its own that needs special rules and regulations to ensure public safety." I'm sorry, but to me your statement directly implied that other trades don't have much of an impact on public safety, and that the electrical trade is inherently more dangerous and therefore more important. I disagreed that the electrical trade is any more dangerous under the current codes and regs, pointed out the rediculousness of regulating the sale of supplies, and argued that no more rules or regulation are needed, as we already have "special rules and regulations"---the NEC and other NFPA and local electrical codes.

You are correct that 2x4's, faucets, and paint don't kill anyone by themselves. Neither do receptacles, switches, or even SE cable, which is what HD sells. In both cases, I feel it is the ignorance and (lack of) craftsmanship of the installer, whether he is a licensed master or a weekend DIYer, that creates the danger, not the products or their availability to consumers.

Len

[ March 06, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Len_B ]

 

[dan19403]

Re: Licenced Electrician in NJ

we a re a licensed contacting firm in NJ.
alot of the state jobs are being awarded to union firms since the new gov. was elected -- which i feel is wrong.

there are many reputable firms that do NJ work that only hire qualified electricans and send their apprentices to school.

i only wish PA would require unilateral licensing -- in PA just about anybody can say they are an electrician as long as they have the money to buy the license in the township in which they work.

home-owners shouldn't be doing their own electrical work. we have all seen the "work" that is done. it is unsafe.

testing is good. unions serve their purpose, but contractors should not be forced to be union for the larger jobs. if the contractor is qualified, it will be known -- most gov't work requires a bond - you aren't going to get the bond if you can't get the job done -- and if somehow you do, and you can't finish it- you will lose your shirt.