License in New Jersey?

[VoltageHz]

I'm about to make an order for study material and start studying for the NJ electrical contractors license (I plan on taking it in about 11 months).

Originally I heard that completing an IBEW apprenticeship was enough in NJ (proving that you had 5 year OTJ as well as classroom training). But now I hear that you have to prove all your hours OTJ.

I got the forms and called up some of my past contractors (I've worked for 3 thru my apprenticeship and up until now). My current contractor filled the form out when I went to the shop for some material. The one before them agreed to fill out the paperwork over the phone, they told me to mail it to them or bring it to the shop. But the first contractor I worked for is giving me problems. I worked for them for 8 months and had a great time there, no problems at all. However, that wouldn't even matter because the woman I talked to didn't even know my name. When I called and politely asked if they would fill out the EC license form proving that I worked for them the woman told me that they were not going to help me get a license and compete with them in this bad time (not much work, 16 month wait for guys at the hall). I called back and asked to speak to the owner, after much arguing he got on the phone and told me he didn't have time to talk to me and hung up.

I have no plans to start a company of my own right now, I enjoy doing what I am doing, I like large commercial work. I am mainly trying to get my license now because my apprenticeship training is still fresh in my head and I have the free time to study. In the future I might start a company and it would be nice to have the license already taken care of.

What can I do about this contractor? What recourse do I have (Judge Judy? )? I have W2's proving that they paid me X amount of dollars but I threw the pay stubs away.

 

[celtic]

V HZ...first ~ don't worry about any former EC signing some silly form.

Gather this material instead:
- W2's from ALL EC's worked for in the past 5 years
- Letter/certification from the DOL showing you completed a 5 year apprenticeship program
- Letter from your BA/Pres. of JATC stating the same as above 2 items [5 years school & OJT]

This is MORE than enough to satisfy the BoEoEC.

What you need at a BARE MINIMUM is this:

N.J.A.C. 13:31-2.1 Qualifications of Applicants
a. Applicants for examination for a license as an electrical contractor shall present proof to the Board that the applicant:
1. Is over the age of 21 years;
2. Holds a high school diploma or equivalency certificate; and
3. Has had, immediately preceding the submission of the application, at least five years of hands-on experience working with tools in the installation, alteration, or repair of wiring for electric light, heat or power, which work shall have been done in compliance with the National Electrical Code. ?Practical hands-on experience? shall not include time spent in supervising, engaging in the practice of engineering, estimating and performing other managerial tasks. In the alternative, the applicant may satisfy the practical hands-on experience requirement by having:

i. Completed a four-year apprenticeship program approved by both a Federal agency and a Federally certified State agency and at least one year of practical hands-on experience as defined in (a)3 above. A certificate of completion issued by the apprenticeship program and a certification by an employer regarding the additional year of practical hands-on experience shall be submitted with the application for the electrical contractor?s examination; or

ii. Satisfied the definition of a qualified journeyman electrician as set forth in N.J.A.C. 13:31-1.2 and completed at least one year of practical hands-on experience as defined in (a)3 above. The applicant shall submit proof of having satisfied the definition of a qualified journeyman electrician in N.J.A.C. 13:31-1.2 and a certification by an employer regarding the additional year of practical hands-on experience; or

iii. Earned a bachelor?s degree in electrical engineering and completed two years of practical hands-on experience as defined in (a)3 above. The applicant shall submit a copy of his or her diploma and a certification by an employer regarding the additional two years of practical hands-on experience; or

iv. Worked in the field of electrical contracting for a least five years immediately preceding the date of application. The applicant shall submit a certification by an employer establishing that the applicant has at least five years of practical hands on experience as defined in (a)3 above.

http://www.nj.gov/oag/ca/electric/elecqual.pdf

When you fill out this form [Application for Examination] write a novel for item #4....I know a few guys who kept it "short" and had their application returned with a request for "more detail".


When I applied for my license, I had one EC who refused to "sign off" on my work experience [not illegal, but in poor taste , IMHO]....I sent no letters regarding my schooling nor letter from the JATC [I also was NOT done with my apprenticeship ~ in 3rd year].
I submitted W2's going back 6 years and wrote a novel for item #4 ~ no problems with application


Got more questions?
Fire away :smile:

 

[VoltageHz]

Thanks for the help! I'm gonna ask more questions tomorrow when the Heinekens wear off and I could see straighter, but for now, should the hall have provided me with the letter from the DOL? I have a DOL document that I received from the JATC when I first started saying I was an official apprentice and whatnot, but nothing saying I completed the course.

"Letter/certification from the DOL showing you completed a 5 year apprenticeship program"

ETA, between beers I was able to read your post a little more thourough and saw the part about an EE degree. I have a BA in EE from NJIT (worst mistake of my life), so it looks like that might help.

 

[celtic]

... should the hall have provided me with the letter from the DOL? I have a DOL document that I received from the JATC when I first started saying I was an official apprentice and whatnot, but nothing saying I completed the course.

To be honest...I don't know :-?
Last year when I applying for EI status, I looked for those items and had no idea where they were or if I ever even had them....I called the DOL and the JATC and just had them send over certified/notarized copies [which I then scanned into my computer which has since crashed ]

ETA, ... I was able to read your post a little more thourough and saw the part about an EE degree. I have a BA in EE from NJIT (worst mistake of my life), so it looks like that might help.

Education is never a mistake/waste of time :wink: you just haven't found the right avenue to make money from it...YET.:grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

To be honest...I don't know :-?
Last year when I applying for EI status, I looked for those items and had no idea where they were or if I ever even had them....I called the DOL and the JATC and just had them send over certified/notarized copies [which I then scanned into my computer which has since crashed ]

Celtic
I think I picked up a TYPO...??

 

[celtic]

Celtic
I think I picked up a TYPO...??

Pierre,
Is that something I have never done before? :-?
[I seriously doubt it :grin:]


Is this better:
Last year when I was applying for EI status


I have 2 more tests to take and 1 class....completed 2 classes and passed 1 test so far

 

[infinity]

Pierre,
Is that something I have never done before? :-?
[I seriously doubt it :grin:]


Is this better:
Last year when I was applying for EI status


I have 2 more tests to take and 1 class....completed 2 classes and passed 1 test so far

How are those classes and tests? I heard that the testing is easier than the EC exam.

 

[VoltageHz]

celtic, what did you go thru for the EI status? What courses you take?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Pierre,
Is that something I have never done before? :-?
[I seriously doubt it :grin:]


Is this better:
Last year when I was applying for EI status


I have 2 more tests to take and 1 class....completed 2 classes and passed 1 test so far

Good for you.

We are starting a local forum/get together with inspectors from Conn and NY, to meet once a month and discuss topics that come up. Would you ever be interested in something like that?

It looks like it may be the 3rd Thursday of the month...

 

[celtic]

How are those classes and tests? I heard that the testing is easier than the EC exam.

There are 2 classes just to be ELIGIBLE to sit for the test ~ ICS and HHS.
The ICS is to sit for the 2A test [basically resi., light. comm]
The HHS is to sit for the 2B and 2C test [hazardous and Hi-rise]

There is no "test" per se for the classes...attendance is MANDATORY and failing to complete every class results in an "incomplete" grade for the class, thus negating one's eligibility to sit for the test.
On the plus side, 75% of the course fee [$475] is returned IF you successfully pass the test.

The test itself [I only sat for the 2A] is easier than the EC test BUT there are more questions and less time...the 2A did not seem to have much in the way of calculations on it.

celtic, what did you go thru for the EI status? What courses you take?

To even consider EI status, one must have:
- 10 years experience VERIFIED [can be as an electrician or as EC]
- Sit for the ICS/HHS classes

The classes are held [typically] at Community Colleges....I took my classes at Bergen County Community College

After taking the classes and passing the tests, you then get to take another class: Sub Code Official.
W/o that class, one has not achieved the EI status.

Good for you.

We are starting a local forum/get together with inspectors from Conn and NY, to meet once a month and discuss topics that come up. Would you ever be interested in something like that?

It looks like it may be the 3rd Thursday of the month...

Of course I would Pierre....BUT...my time seems to be of limited quantity and of no particular logic/order.
Right now, I am taking some "other" classes...and have yet to allot time to take the 2B/2C portions of the test that I attended classes for last April.

The time frame for taking the test after the classes is 18 months and I am rapidly [if not already] approaching that limit.

I probably average about 100+/- hours in the classroom per year and while 100 hrs/yr does not seem like much, try telling a 6 yr old that Daddy won't be home until after bedtime about 25x a year [not including other various commitments] ~ the disappointment in her eyes hurts everytime.....the 15+/- hour days are draining as well, Tues & Thurs. nights means Wed. is a wash for the never ending renov./rehab on this shack ~ and all that deferred work gets pushed to the weekends.

In time [like when I sell this dump], the clander will be clear with the exception of the kid's extra curricular activities. I will be coming to see you then.

 

[VoltageHz]

How often do job openings come up?

 

[celtic]

How often do job openings come up?

Pretty frequently...mostly part-time[New Jersey Civil Service Commission - although no positions this week] ~ the main issue with an EI position:
Who pays the insurance and what is the coverage?

Another caveat is "location".
You cannot inspect one town and be an EC in that town/city/boro/village/what-have-you AND a town/city/boro/village/what-have-you that borders the town you inspect.
You CAN be both an EC and an EI at the same time...just follow the caveat above.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Of course I would Pierre....BUT...my time seems to be of limited quantity and of no particular logic/order.
Right now, I am taking some "other" classes...and have yet to allot time to take the 2B/2C portions of the test that I attended classes for last April.


I probably average about 100+/- hours in the classroom per year and while 100 hrs/yr does not seem like much, try telling a 6 yr old that Daddy won't be home until after bedtime about 25x a year [not including other various commitments] ~ the disappointment in her eyes hurts everytime.....the 15+/- hour days are draining as well,

In time [like when I sell this dump], the clander will be clear with the exception of the kid's extra curricular activities. I will be coming to see you then.

I know all too well how you are fairing. I was and still am in your shoes. I have 3 girls and they have endured their father away from home a lot more than they like.

Good luck!!! If there is anything I could do to help, let me know.

 

[goldstar]

Sorry to jump into this thread so late but regarding this EC who doesn't want to submit a letter on your behalf, if you really want to wire brush this guy write a letter to the licensing board http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/nonmedical/electrical.htm explaining the situation.

I have no plans to start a company of my own right now, I enjoy doing what I am doing, I like large commercial work. I am mainly trying to get my license now because my apprenticeship training is still fresh in my head and I have the free time to study. In the future I might start a company and it would be nice to have the license already taken care of.

After you take the exam (and assuming you pass) plan on starting your business at that point in time. Whether you take on any work or not is another story but when the licensing board announces that you've passed you'll have to provide them with the name of your company (even if it's YOUR NAME EC), provide them with a surity bond and proof of insurance. If you plan on doing any business with the public then you'll have to file for a business permit also. All in all it will cost you about $100.00 to take the exam, $250-$300.00 for the license, business permit, surity bond and pressure seal. Plan on purchasing liability,auto and workman's-comp insurance in addition. My advice, if you're not ready to take on these expenses then don't bother to take the exam until you're ready.

Don't bank on just your apprenticeship knowledge to take the exam. There's probably more on the exams than what your apprenticeship has taught you. Personally I would take a prep course before I took the exam.

As far as taking the exam itself it's about a 7 hour test (4 hrs on the NEC, 1.5 hrs on business law and 1.5 hrs on smoke alarms). Here are some tips :

• Make sure you have a photo ID with you at test time

• Make sure you don't have any permanently marked notes in your copy of the NEC - the proctors will rip out those pages

• The NEC test is 100 questions long - you need 70 correct answers. Don't try to ace the test. Mike Holt is probably the only one who has an outside chance of doing that

• You're allowed to have a calculator with you but not the type that stores formulas

• You're not permitted to have the "key words" book for the test

If I think of any more I'll post them. Good luck.

 

[infinity]

After you take the exam (and assuming you pass) plan on starting your business at that point in time. Whether you take on any work or not is another story but when the licensing board announces that you've passed you'll have to provide them with the name of your company (even if it's YOUR NAME EC), provide them with a surity bond and proof of insurance. If you plan on doing any business with the public then you'll have to file for a business permit also. All in all it will cost you about $100.00 to take the exam, $250-$300.00 for the license, business permit, surity bond and pressure seal. Plan on purchasing liability,auto and workman's-comp insurance in addition. My advice, if you're not ready to take on these expenses then don't bother to take the exam until you're ready.

Goldstar are you confusing the contractor license with a business permit? I'm almost certain that you can take and pass the test and simply have the license. If you want to actually do any business then you'll need to activate a business permit and spend a lot of money on all of the things you've mentioned. I know people who did this for years without ever getting a business permit.

 

[celtic]

After you take the exam (and assuming you pass) plan on starting your business at that point in time. Whether you take on any work or not is another story but when the licensing board announces that you've passed you'll have to provide them with the name of your company (even if it's YOUR NAME EC), provide them with a surity bond and proof of insurance. If you plan on doing any business with the public then you'll have to file for a business permit also.

:-?

You do NOT need a business name to hold a license...you need a business name to hold a business permit.

You need a business permit to operate a business.


Many guys have a license with "inactive" status - no business name, no business permit, no business.

When license status is "inactive", one needs NO insurance or bonding as there is NO work being performed [and no pressure seal issued]...additionally, the CEU requirement is dropped to the mandatory 10 [9 code/1 law] hr. course.

 

[goldstar]

Goldstar are you confusing the contractor license with a business permit? I'm almost certain that you can take and pass the test and simply have the license.

Rob, I wasn't confused. What's the point of having a license if you're not going to contract for electrical work with the public :-? My thinking is that you don't need a license to be an electrician. You can work for someone else under their license. However, if you want to be in your own electrical business then you need both the license and business permit. One doesn't do any good without the other.

If you want to actually do any business then you'll need to activate a business permit and spend a lot of money on all of the things you've mentioned. I know people who did this for years without ever getting a business permit.

Did you ever ask them why ? What could they possibly do with an electrical license and no business permit ? Did they just get it for prestige ? I don't know - it just doesn't make any sense to me. Once this individual gets his license will he still have to obtain 34 CEU's per licensing period ? If he doesn't do any contracting work for 3 years will he be exempt from taking the CEU's if he "shelves" his license ?

Regards,

Phil

 

[celtic]

What could they possibly do with an electrical license and no business permit ?

I dunno...maybe be licensee for a little company like EMCOR/Forest Electric?

. Once this individual gets his license will he still have to obtain 34 CEU's per licensing period ?


If he doesn't do any contracting work for 3 years will he be exempt from taking the CEU's if he "shelves" his license ?

Regards,

Phil

A license w/o a business permit requires the 10 hrs of CEU's.
Whether or not work is performed is irrelevant...what is relevant is the tie-in to a business permit.

 

[goldstar]

You do NOT need a business name to hold a license...you need a business name to hold a business permit.

You need a business permit to operate a business.

Understood.

Many guys have a license with "inactive" status - no business name, no business permit, no business.

Also understood but don't know why.

When license status is "inactive", one needs NO insurance or bonding as there is NO work being performed [and no pressure seal issued]

I can buy into that.

...additionally, the CEU requirement is dropped to the mandatory 10 [9 code/1 law] hr. course.

I know that's the way the rules are written but I can't buy into that line of thinking.

Regards,

Phil

 

[celtic]

Phil....years ago, when the test consisted of only 2 parts [code and law], minimum CEU req. [10 hr]....guys would take the test as an "insurance" for the future.
The cost to maintain a license is minimal [$150 tri-annual renewal fee, +fee's for 10 hr course].

Fast fwd, a dozen years...the guy that took the test at 40 yrs. old is now 50+...body aches but still needs money/job...what to do?
Time to "cash in" the insurance policy and have his kid be the "employee".


This is just one scenario....there are plenty of other reasons ~ some as benign as "I just wanted to see if I could pass".