License requirements for troubleshooting...

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sparkycontrols

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Does anyone know if an electrical license is required to troubleshoot a piece of industrial equipment i.e. a punch press? Not pulling any wire or changing out motors, simply troubleshooting with a multimeter.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Not sure about license, BUT, I suggest at minimum having your own copies of NFPA-70E and NFPA-79.

Industries have numoerous various types of equipment. There may be very detailed ANSI / OSHA / or other "consensus" standards and/or codes applicable to your specifc industy, ie metal stamping (Mechanical Power Press). Our particular industry is Injection Molding Machines, and we have a very specific rigid safety document that we adhere to. This promotes A. SAFETY first.

You may want to search ANSI using the keyword(s) of your specific equipment.
 
Here you go

Here you go

From Google Search:

OSHA Standards:
29 CFR 1910.217 Mechanical Power Presses
29 CFR 1910.147 The Control of Hazardous Energy (Lockout/Tagout)
www.osha.gov
National Consensus Standards:
ANSI B11.1-2001 Mechanical Power Presses ? Safety Requirements for
Construction, Care and Use
www.ansi.org
 
Sorry, I am in Michigan. I have been working on/troubleshooting industrial equipment for 12 years and have never heard of any Licensing requirement by the State in order to perform these duties. I am considered a 'qualified person' because I am a Controls Engineer, however, now that I am doing some work in a UAW facility, I'm being told I must hold an electricians license in order to "touch any wire" or "open any electrical panel". Go figure.
 
There is nothing unusual about a particular company, or even facility, having specific rules for interfacing with equipment. Each employer gets to decide what requirements you must meet in order to be considered qualified for the task you are performing.
 
sparkycontrols said:
Sorry, I am in Michigan. I have been working on/troubleshooting industrial equipment for 12 years and have never heard of any Licensing requirement by the State in order to perform these duties. I am considered a 'qualified person' because I am a Controls Engineer, however, now that I am doing some work in a UAW facility, I'm being told I must hold an electricians license in order to "touch any wire" or "open any electrical panel". Go figure.
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You may be able to appease the customer(s) if you provide documentation that you:
1. Have had formal NFPA-70E Training
2. Have your own (or company provided PPE)

The BAR has been raised as-of-late. Arc Flash Injuries are being recorded and quantified. The goal of OSHA, and Insurance providers is to merely reduce fatalities, or injuries to personnel.

If you are merely trouble shooting, can you plug your laptop into the programming outlet exterior to the control panel, and then direct the in-house electrician to "open the panel, and test this circuit you indicate on the control schematic".

I just went through this scenario last week in a UAW plant. I was met with eager cooperative helpful skilled trades employess, and working together, we brought the project to success in a timely manner.

(Side note) We are intentionally designing ALL new projects to be a "split panel design, where all 480v / 120v resides in one cabinet, and seperate control cabinet with energey levels below any hazzardous energy levels.

We also make sure that every communication port is extended to a NEMA rated bulkhead connector on the exterior of the enclosure(s). You may want to look adding that scenario. Note, NFPA 79 now requires GFCI protection for programming outlets. Search Google for "NEMA 12" and "GFCI" and you will find several vendors with very nice "off-the-shelf" solutions. (I won't mention any vendor names, so I don't get flagged for solictation).
 
sparkycontrols said:
Does anyone know if an electrical license is required to troubleshoot a piece of industrial equipment i.e. a punch press? Not pulling any wire or changing out motors, simply troubleshooting with a multimeter.

Thanks in advance for your help!
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RE: "Simply Troubleshooting with a multimeter".
What seems simple is very dangerous. If your are using a DMM in an in-line DC current measurement to test an industry standard 4-20mA signal, you probably relocated your test leads on the front of the meter, so that the current signal is "dropped" across a precision 250ohm resistor internal to the meter. Then you go look at something else, then you come back and measure 480 volts on the top of a Size 4 motor starter, (without relocating your leads back to voltage mode), and it could lead to a very nasty injury or fatality.

Don't want to scare or discourage, but only want to increase awareness.
 
benaround said:
I think it's more like, would you let Thomas Edison wire your clothes dryer!!
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Huh? I'm not following you.

If the OP had a card from the steamfitters and came in to the UAW facility to work on the machine the question of his quals and vague references to non-existent regulations would never have come up.

As an aside: Once upon a time I ran a service company where we worked on gas and electric and steam and plumbing and controls and motors and chassis aspects of commercial machinery. Not a soul in the company had a trade license to do any of those trades. For WC we were classified as millwrights.
 
sparkycontrols said:
Does anyone know if an electrical license is required to troubleshoot a piece of industrial equipment i.e. a punch press? Not pulling any wire or changing out motors, simply troubleshooting with a multimeter.

Thanks in advance for your help!
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To answer your question : you do not have to be a licensed electrical contractor/master electrician to troubleshoot industrial equipment in MI.

What you are going through is just plain "politics". ( Do not want to get into details, you know what I mean).As others already mentioned, you should use your proper PPE,follow ESWP requirements and other local requirements to cover yourself.
 
BryanMD said:
If the OP had a card from the steamfitters and came in to the UAW facility to work on the machine the question of his quals and vague references to non-existent regulations would never have come up.
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The Union is pretty strong up in that part of the country, not like here in the mid-east. In days gone by, if electrons ran through it, it belonged to a JW in the IBEW (on Union jobs) for an instance such as this. A little at a time, other trades would wire their own equipment and the unions did or said nothing to prevent this from happening (not meant to seem for or against the policy, just to detail the account. I know this can be a hot issue.), and much of the work that would have gone to the JW was "lost".

I have heard that this is not the case up there, that the Unions still control much more of what happens... especially in their own plants.

That being said, I think they probably would have a problem if a Fitter came to work on electric.
 
BryanMD said:
LOL. That was meant to be somewhat facetious.

It should have been "even a steamfitter if he had a card..." etc
but I'll stand by the point I was making.
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I gotcha Bryan. didn't get the joke, apparently.

Well, the "even a..." was what I was addressing. If they are as strict up there as I've heard, then they probably wouldn't accept anyone but a JW.
 
sparkycontrols said:
Sorry, I am in Michigan. I have been working on/troubleshooting industrial equipment for 12 years and have never heard of any Licensing requirement by the State in order to perform these duties. I am considered a 'qualified person' because I am a Controls Engineer, however, now that I am doing some work in a UAW facility, I'm being told I must hold an electricians license in order to "touch any wire" or "open any electrical panel". Go figure.
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Thats fairly typical in UAW plants. It is not strictly speaking completely true, but rather than have an unnecessary union beef you are usually better off going along with the charade.

Most often what happens is a UAW electrician is assigned to "work with" you. Most times this amounts to him finding a comfy spot to relax nearby while you do what you have to do. Its not as if you have to pay his wages, so learn to live with this kind of thing.

Its amazing how this requirement just disappears if it is on a weekend, or at 3 a.m. and the plant cannot get a UAW electrician to come in to stand around watching you work.

Sometimes this works out in your favor though. Occasionally its handy to have a little help.

I was in a Chrysler plant once in MO and they had no available electricians so they pulled a union steward off the line to watch me. He promptly found a chair in a corner nearby, propped his feet up on something and went to sleep with a newspaper draped over his head. I was later told that he was actually paid electrician scale for the time he was there because he was doing electrician work.
 
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