Life Cycle of Sinamics Drives
- Thread starter panthripu
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new.siemens.com
SINAMICS variable frequency drives
Variable frequency drives for every drive application
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I was involved in the design and manufacture of variable speed drives for many years - decades. The only components I know of with a defined operational life were electrolytic capacitors. Their declared life depended on operational conditions. We did some very large drives with hundreds of typically 2200uF 450V capacitors. Some have been in service since 1992 with one set of replacement bucket capacitor banks.
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- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
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- Electrical Engineer
I agree with Besoeker, except that practically speaking, once a high volume manufacturer like Siemens ceases production of a product line and stops buying some of the key components going into the drives, the supply chain dries up and repair parts become unobtainable, so effectively your choices become so limited on what you can expect in terms of reliability and Mean Time To Repair, it ceases to make sense to keep using them. I then put a practicality limit at 10-15 years. Having worked for Siemens, it’s really less than that, maybe 7-10 years. They like to cut and run on older product lines when newer models are released. When I left in 2011 we were selling Master drives, the Sinamics were just being released. It’s virtually impossible to get any repair parts/boards for Master drives already, most people I talk to about it are already scrapping them.
I don't greatly disagree with that. It depends on what level you delve into for repairs. Can you get replacement boards? Maybe not. Replacement components? Possibly. In the end, I think it comes down to cost. Is it cheaper to repair or replace?
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
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- Master Electrician
Where I worked just retired two AB 1336 drives installed in 1999, 21 years is a long time for any electronics. But there are still lots of 1336 drives out there, so much that AB wants old drives back to refurbish for legacy customers.
But new drives are generally less expensive and smaller. The 1336 was basically a hand mfg drive, the new powerflexes are less expensive due to manufacturing changes, and offer more communication options
But new drives are generally less expensive and smaller. The 1336 was basically a hand mfg drive, the new powerflexes are less expensive due to manufacturing changes, and offer more communication options
Yes, understood. I mentioned some large variable speed drives that we designed and manufactured. A cement works has has two 2,250kW units (about 3,000 HP) units in operation since 1992. Last night, one had a trip. Turned out to be an SCR on a printed circuit card. A component costing around $1. Cheaper to replace that than the whole drive.............
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
The best fans on the market are rated for 88,000 hours at full load, so if a VFD is running 24/7/365 that's the 10 years mentioned. Some newer models of VFDs are now coming with the ability to monitor the fan life and performance tell you when it is reaching the end, BEFORE it fails. Once a fan fails, the IGBTs fail shortly thereafter so if you can preemptively change them, your chances of getting longer life out of the drive are better.
I agree on the solder issue, that monster is already rearing its head not just on VFDs but in all electronics, especially where plug-on PC boards are involved. The elimination of lead means that when they cut the "fingers" in the gold plated edge connectors, the edges of the PCB traces are exposed. When the base layer was lead, it would form lead-oxide right along the cut edge that would act to protect the rest of the sub-layer. Without it, the base layer corrodes from contaminates in the air and the gold starts to flake off. Nobody has a good solution for that yet. You can put conformal coating on the rest of the PCB, but you can't coat connectors. What we will start seeing is a return to all-in-one designs where there are fewer or no "plug-on" PCB accessories.
I agree on the solder issue, that monster is already rearing its head not just on VFDs but in all electronics, especially where plug-on PC boards are involved. The elimination of lead means that when they cut the "fingers" in the gold plated edge connectors, the edges of the PCB traces are exposed. When the base layer was lead, it would form lead-oxide right along the cut edge that would act to protect the rest of the sub-layer. Without it, the base layer corrodes from contaminates in the air and the gold starts to flake off. Nobody has a good solution for that yet. You can put conformal coating on the rest of the PCB, but you can't coat connectors. What we will start seeing is a return to all-in-one designs where there are fewer or no "plug-on" PCB accessories.
The ones in the cement works | mentioned have been going since 1992. 24/7.
That's 245,000 hours.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
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- Retired PV System Designer
Clearly they don't make them like they used to. (Although I also wonder how many times the bearings were replaced over the years?)
Possibly a few times. But it wasn't end of life.
Rated life depends on %failures. So if you are looking at warranties perhaps a 10% payout is the goal and estimated life is short: if it’s a sales pitch like with LED lighting maybe 70-90%. Environment matters too much more than intrinsic ideal conditions. I have a water customer in the outer banks that is happy with 36 months due to severe H2S issues. Another wanted to know why one failed after 28 years:
Semikron makes modules for the transportation (train) and utility market. Sintered (no solder) connections, metallized film solid caps, underrated (200,000 hour) power electronics. 300% cost increase on theoretically doubled life. So we have solutions but the economics are pricey.
Semikron makes modules for the transportation (train) and utility market. Sintered (no solder) connections, metallized film solid caps, underrated (200,000 hour) power electronics. 300% cost increase on theoretically doubled life. So we have solutions but the economics are pricey.
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