Light/Fan Mounting Restrictions Q

[FionaZuppa]

so, i have some outdoor fans going in on a covered patio. does NEC allow the box wires to extend down out of the box into the fan canopy where the wires pass through a piece of wood. box is hard mounted between two rafters, then a piece of wood would cover the box but wires pass through. fan canopy would be mounted to the metal box via longer screws, etc. would i need a center hole box cover w/ insulating bushing? this pic for illustration purposes.

 

[K8MHZ]

Are you talking about individual conductors, or NMS cable?

 

[E16]

314.20 I think you would need a plastic box extender (per your drawing). IMHO

 

[FionaZuppa]

Are you talking about individual conductors, or NMS cable?

14/2 THHN via EMT to the box, wires would terminate inside the canopy, not the box, etc. or would i need to pigtail the wires and then push them up into the box?
314.20 says a box that employs flush type cover or faceplate. so, a tad hard to decipher exactly what NEC verbiage applies. if a PVC fitting extends out from a cover center hole into the canopy, is that acceptable for the wires to pass through? and to boot, this is wet rated fans, although i wont be hosing them down as maker suggests can be done, they are wet rated and outside under a water tight patio cover (aka "roof").

 

[K8MHZ]

I don't have time to give code references right now, but the issue I see is the THHN passing unprotected through a combustible material.

Why can't you set the boxes flush with the ceiling?

 

[FionaZuppa]

so, how about a WP box where the center hole faces down and i put a PVC fitting there for the extension, and i cover the box with a gasket/cover? just not sure i have enough room above the box to do it this way, would prefer the open side to face down. NEC allow to put the PVC fitting in center of the gasket/cover?

 

[FionaZuppa]

I don't have time to give code references right now, but the issue I see is the THHN passing unprotected through a combustible material.

Why can't you set the boxes flush with the ceiling?

well, this is why i am suggesting a PVC fitting (1/2" slip to 1/2" NPT) from box center that extends down into the fan canopy, thus the wires can never touch the wood as they pass from box to fan, etc.

i can maybe make box flush (EMT needs to enter via side hole), but helps me finish it by not making them flush. if a PVC fitting to extend is allowed i would prefer this way.

 

[FionaZuppa]

ok, i cant find it. if my fan is not supported by the box, can EMT run directly into the canopy from top side (with a EMT compression fitting on end, that has bushing)? and let me explain the canopy a tad further. the fan has a 10"dia metal ceiling plate that gets mounted to ceiling, and then the fan connects to the mounting plate with 4 side screws, thus any wires in the canopy are surrounded by metal enclosure. this round mounting plate has a center hole that will accept 3/4" fitting. thus, can i simply terminate EMT to this plate?

 

[cadpoint]

You need to use a fan rated box that are usually sold with extension brackets, the box will be set so as to be completely exposed to the inside of the box. The extension brackets usually attach to the back or in this case will be the top of the box. Attachment of the proper type of fitting to the box is required to be suitable to the wiring method used.
The use of MC would be a very flexible and less taxing and a better over all fit, but that's just my opinion.

 

[FionaZuppa]

You need to use a fan rated box that are usually sold with extension brackets, the box will be set so as to be completely exposed to the inside of the box. The extension brackets usually attach to the back or in this case will be the top of the box. Attachment of the proper type of fitting to the box is required to be suitable to the wiring method used.
The use of MC would be a very flexible and less taxing and a better over all fit, but that's just my opinion.

there is no code that says a fan must be mounted to the electrical box, is there? i didnt see that in NEC. unless NEC says i cant, i am fabricating my own brackets for fan plate to attach to (mild steel square hammered tubing), and the EMT will terminate on the mounting plate's 3/4" knockout via EMT fitting.

anything not allowed with this?

 

[dterp4ia]

Check out 314.20. That let's you know in wood your box must be flush.
In order for what you're saying to work you would need a fitting rated to hang the bracket and be 100% sure your fan canopy is rated for box fill.
Also, refer to 314.27 (c)

 

[FionaZuppa]

Check out 314.20. That let's you know in wood your box must be flush.
In order for what you're saying to work you would need a fitting rated to hang the bracket and be 100% sure your fan canopy is rated for box fill.
Also, refer to 314.27 (c)

my bad, missing clarity, so here goes.

the 3/4x3/4 steel tubing will be welded into H shape, each of the 4 ends will have welded side brackets that will be screwed to the side of the rafters (8 screws total), this is what the fan plate hangs from (bolts to). in this setup i am skipping the wood, but in both cases (wood or not) the EMT fitting is connected directly to the mounting plate 3/4" knockout hole in center, thus the canopy is the all-metal enclosure by which the 14/2 THHN will drop into, etc. there is no weight on the EMT, etc.

meets code ??

 

[FionaZuppa]

here's what it looks like. EMT will enter from the top of the mount, etc. after EMT is ran i will take down the brackets to have them powder coated.
any issue for NEC?

 

[Sierrasparky]

does not look like a 3/4 " Ko in that thing.

 

[FionaZuppa]

does not look like a 3/4 " Ko in that thing.

the base plate has a 3/4" hole. what you see in the pic is 3/4" to 1/2" reducing washer(s), and then a 1/2" comp/npt fitting is screwed in. the fittings and pipes have been sprayed a color to match the home, etc.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Run the emt into the box above and leave the wires to come thru into the canopy. I see nothing wrong with splicing in the canopy. You could run the fan wires thru the back plate and make the connection but then you need someone to hold the fan while you make the connections-- yuck

 

[FionaZuppa]

Run the emt into the box above and leave the wires to come thru into the canopy. I see nothing wrong with splicing in the canopy. You could run the fan wires thru the back plate and make the connection but then you need someone to hold the fan while you make the connections-- yuck

there is no jbox there. and, the base plate itself has a fan hanger (hook), so you hang the fan onto the base plate hanger, with both hands free wire nut the wires, and then fan gets pushed onto the base plate where four #8 machine screws screw through the side of base plate into the fan (actually, a tad easier than that as two of the screw holes are the twist-lock type and two are not, thus you just twist fan onto two holes of base plate and then add the other two, etc.).

 

[FionaZuppa]

post #16. i suspect i misunderstood you. to pass up the fan wires into a jbox that is right on top of the fan base, the base would need to be unscrewed and thus nothing to hang fan on. i believe all fan mounts have hole in center that the feed wires come down through into the fan canopy (at least every fan i have seen or installed). in my case though the item the fan mounts to is not a jbox but rather a fabricated steel bracket.

 

[FionaZuppa]

so, can anyone find NEC issue with setup in post #13?
1) fan is hard mounted not to a jbox but rather a custom heavy duty mount
2) EMT connects directly to fan base mount using UL listed EMT parts
3) the fan canopy is all-metal and fully enclosed (and bonded to gnd)
4) fans are UL listed as "outdoor/wet"

 

[Dennis Alwon]

There is no means to run the wire into the canopy that is pictured except thru the small nipple. IMO, there needs to be a jb behind this bracket. How would you run the conduit or whatever into that bracket?