Lighting: Control Outdoor w/ Dusk and Time

[jkinzieh]

My next projected gifted me is a wee bit strange, This is what the owner desires...
Resort setting, Outdoor Shore lighting,
System Requirements:
1.) Turn ON15-30 minutes before Dusk everyday.
2.) Turn OFF at approx. 1:00AM
3.) Turn ON ~1 hour before Dawn
4.) Turn OFF at Dawn
5.) Set it and forget it system : - )

Existing:
Globe Lighting on poles already , 120VAC/20A single circuit, ~10-12 Poles, A19 lamps - 2700K - 1500l (~230mA/per)
Complete circuit currently on Photo Eye/SW (Dusk to Dawn)

Inputs:
Daily Live Dusk and Dawn Time for location,
Time of Day

System Function:
Programmatically, Daily,
Retrieve Dusk Time, Dawn Time for location
Perform math to determine ON/OFF points based on Time of Day +/- Dusk/Dawn Times

Noodled a lot of stuff, thought I'd throw it out there...

Thoughts? Thanks

~ I know nothing... and suspect even less ~ [Chip-1979]

 

[LarryFine]

Almost any standard digital wall timer switch performs these functions.

You can adjust for dawn and dusk by lying to the timer about your zone.

 

[jkinzieh]

Thank you,
Got the lying to the timer idea...
How would it adjust daily by itself? For new sunrise/sunset time each day?

 

[LarryFine]

Thank you,
Got the lying to the timer idea...
How would it adjust daily by itself? For new sunrise/sunset time each day?

Programmable astronomical timers automatically adjust for the day of the year, leap year, etc.

 

[winnie]

In particular, you want to search for the term "Astronomic" in the timer description. This means that the timer has some mechanism which calculates sunrise and sunset, and lets you program your 'events' relative to the astronomic time. You can even get _mechanical_ astronomic timers.

Like any programmable device, some are smarter than others. It's been years since I had to program one; but as a caution: after you select a potential device, download the manual and see how hard it will be to program. In particular look to see if you can turn the lights off at a specific time or if you are limited to 'so many minutes after sunset'. (Or same for sunrise.) Also look if you can offset your events from sunrise/sunset, or if you are limited to exactly sunrise/sunset.

If you want the ultimate in 'install and forget', look at http://gpslightlock.com

This is a GPS based system, which you order programmed as desired. It sets its own clock and calculates sunrise/sunset based on measured position. You can get it programmed with exactly the time sequence you want (they do custom programming), wire it in, and it will just do the job. IMHO the biggest strength is the biggest weakness: there are no settings. You order what you want, but if you change your mind you have to have the supplier program it (I presume by sending it back to them.)

-Jon

 

[jkinzieh]

ok, i think i see what you are saying
I found Intermatic IW600K 7-Day
It looks like it might work...
I am watching a video on how to set it up
For example it lets you set an ON time or Dusk time
what i am trying to work through is how to have it always turn on 30 minutes before dusk through the whole year

I think ON time is a specific time every day
I think Dusk ON time is a time that will change as the Dusk time changes

what im shooting for is turn on at "Dusk minus 30 minutes" daily
not sure if that's possible

 

[jkinzieh]

winnie sorry i posted while you were posting...
your direction looks like what I need!
I'm off to another task, i follow your link
Thank you!

And Thanks to Larry Fine as well!

 

[LarryFine]

what i am trying to work through is how to have it always turn on 30 minutes before dusk through the whole year

what im shooting for is turn on at "Dusk minus 30 minutes" daily
not sure if that's possible

Tell the timer that you're in the northern-most zone. I see you're in Wis., so you might not get 30 min.

 

[hbiss]

The system I have at my house does exactly that. Outdoor photocontrol and a simple Tork time clock. Hot to the photocontrol, red from the photocontrol to the contacts in the time clock, then to the lighting.

Photocontrol takes care of the dusk to dawn functions. Set the time clock to turn off at 1AM and back on at maybe 5AM.

-Hal

 

[jkinzieh]

The system I have at my house does exactly that. Outdoor photocontrol and a simple Tork time clock. Hot to the photocontrol, red from the photocontrol to the contacts in the time clock, then to the lighting.

Photocontrol takes care of the dusk to dawn functions. Set the time clock to turn off at 1AM and back on at maybe 5AM.

-Hal

thanks Hal...
but then the light wouldn't go on before dark? as desired?
maybe i missed something

 

[LarryFine]

Many photocells come with slide covers that make them turn on sooner.

 

[hbiss]

Many photocells come with slide covers that make them turn on sooner.

Exactly. And you also can locate the photocontrol in a location that is normally darker.

-Hal

 

[Omid]

The system I have at my house does exactly that. Outdoor photocontrol and a simple Tork time clock. Hot to the photocontrol, red from the photocontrol to the contacts in the time clock, then to the lighting.

Photocontrol takes care of the dusk to dawn functions. Set the time clock to turn off at 1AM and back on at maybe 5AM.

-Hal

Not sure but I think it should be hot to the timer, red from the timer to the black of photocontrol, then red from the photocontrol to the lighting. otherwise regular timer will become out of clock when the photocell switch off. but even with this how it turns on 1 hour before Dawn as op wants. Photocontrol is off and regular timer doesn't know when is Dawn.

 

[hbiss]

Not sure but I think it should be hot to the timer, red from the timer to the black of photocontrol, then red from the photocontrol to the lighting. otherwise regular timer will become out of clock when the photocell switch off. but even with this how it turns on 1 hour before Dawn as op wants. Photocontrol is off and regular timer doesn't know when is Dawn.

Believe me. Lots of guys seem to get this wrong.

Photocontrol needs to be hot all the time so you can't put it after the time clock.

Time clock has to have the brass jumper removed that jumpers the motor and one side of the contacts to hot. The motor must be supplied independently else the motor will turn on and off with the photocontrol.

I don't know when dawn is either. But 5AM is a pretty good approximation for something that's approximate.

-Hal

 

[Omid]

Believe me. Lots of guys seem to get this wrong.

Photocontrol needs to be hot all the time so you can't put it after the time clock.

Time clock has to have the brass jumper removed that jumpers the motor and one side of the contacts to hot. The motor must be supplied independently else the motor will turn on and off with the photocontrol.

I don't know when dawn is either. But 5AM is a pretty good approximation for something that's approximate.

-Hal

Thanks, it works with that wiring.

 

[Electromatic]

I can't recall the make or model, but I'm sure I've installed astronomic timers with specific settings for on/off times offset from the calculated (stored calendar) sunset/sunrise times.

 

[brantmacga]

I use the P&S RT-200 astronomical timer. You set your latitude and current date in the programming and it will adjust dusk/dawn times accordingly. It also adjusts for DST.

So you can set Dusk -30, and Dawn +30 as your on/off times. It also has a manual override button on the front.


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[Flicker Index]

Which astronomical timers specifically let you set it so it returns to the previous state following a brief power outage?
Consumer wall switches don't specify or allow you to modify power outage behaviors. While the backup capacitor/battery may keep the clock during a short outage, if it's "on" at the time of outage, it doesn't return to "on" state after restoration of power. Not a big deal for porch light application, but an entire corridor or parking lot being out following a power quip is uaccceptable.

 

[brantmacga]

Which astronomical timers specifically let you set it so it returns to the previous state following a brief power outage?
Consumer wall switches don't specify or allow you to modify power outage behaviors. While the backup capacitor/battery may keep the clock during a short outage, if it's "on" at the time of outage, it doesn't return to "on" state after restoration of power. Not a big deal for porch light application, but an entire corridor or parking lot being out following a power quip is uaccceptable.

The battery powered Intermatic ST01 wall timer will switch off/on regardless of having power to the switch, because the timer and switch function is completely battery powered. When the battery dies, the switch will no longer function. It’s supposed to run for 3/yrs on a battery.

I’m almost certain the P&S RT-200 will actuate the switch regardless of power even though it doesn’t use a battery; it will keep time & settings for 72/hrs in a power failure.

 

[Electromatic]

I think most astronomic timers would go to whatever state they are programmed for at that time. Even if the battery doesn't control the actual on/off function (as mentioned with the ST01), it retains the clock and program information. If the power is restored during a time that is programmed to be on, it should turn on.