Lighting not supplied by EC

[electricalist]

Typically we don't supply(buy) lighting. We may have a part in finding what's submitted though.
My question . Does they buyer ,supplier of the fixtures need to buy things like the legs that don't always come with cans, or the ceiling wires to hang them,or the dimmers etc?

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[petersonra]

Typically we don't supply(buy) lighting. We may have a part in finding what's submitted though.
My question . Does they buyer ,supplier of the fixtures need to buy things like the legs that don't always come with cans, or the ceiling wires to hang them,or the dimmers etc?

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I would think such things would be covered in the contract. If it is not, you should probably cover it in your bid documents.

 

[Chamuit]

Are you talking about the fixtures from a fixture schedule?

 

[electricalist]

Are you talking about the fixtures from a fixture schedule?

Yes

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[gadfly56]

Yes

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If they've gone to the trouble of creating a fixture schedule, there should be a note somewhere as to who is responsible for the miscellaneous items, and more importantly, for shortages. A good product cut sheet should indicate what comes in the box, otherwise either include a note in your bid response excluding those items or price the bid to cover them and be sure to note that too.

I see too many posts here where the EC has to receive the material (that they didn't purchase) and then several weeks later when they open the boxes half the screws and whatnot are missing and then it's a big to do about who makes good on that. The GC usually claims that the EC should have notified the GC or PM when the material was delivered so it's the EC's problem now, etc.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If they are buying the fixtures then you have to provide everything to install them per code, IMO

 

[infinity]

On large projects light fixtures can be a nightmare. IMO it's great when the GC wants to buy the lighting fixtures to try and capture the 10-15% markup. They inherit all of the problems associated with them and yes there will be problems.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

On large projects light fixtures can be a nightmare. IMO it's great when the GC wants to buy the ligniting fixtures to try and capture the 10-15% markup. They inherit all of the problems associated with them and yes there will be problems.

There may be problems but we are the ones that have to go back and make it work. If I bid a job and the fixtures are by other then I add a percentage of what I think the fixtures will cost. Imo, that is my markup not the builders. I don't buy their lumber.

 

[infinity]

There may be problems but we are the ones that have to go back and make it work. If I bid a job and the fixtures are by other then I add a percentage of what I think the fixtures will cost. Imo, that is my markup not the builders. I don't buy their lumber.

For us when the GC buys the fixtures they pay the EC to handle and install them. They also pay for any problems related to the fixutres.

 

[roger]

For us when the GC buys the fixtures they pay the EC to handle and install them. They also pay for any problems related to the fixutres.

We pretty much won't work for those that want to supply material but, if we did we would handle it the same way.

Roger

 

[JFletcher]

On large projects light fixtures can be a nightmare. IMO it's great when the GC wants to buy the lighting fixtures to try and capture the 10-15% markup. They inherit all of the problems associated with them and yes there will be problems.

You mean like wrong color (stainless instead of bronze), wrong style, wrong size to fit on siding blocks, wrong number of fixtures, broken globes, bad/otherwise damaged, no/wrong kind of bulbs... and with paddle fans, no/wrong light kit, no/wrong length downrod, was supposed to be remote control and isnt, etc etc etc.

 

[cdslotz]

There may be problems but we are the ones that have to go back and make it work. If I bid a job and the fixtures are by other then I add a percentage of what I think the fixtures will cost. Imo, that is my markup not the builders. I don't buy their lumber.

Exactly....if we don't furnish fixtures (or anything else), our markup is as if we did furnish....if you don't adjust your markup, then you have a low material/labor ratio, which makes the job risky if you go over in labor.

 

[Chamuit]

Typically we don't supply(buy) lighting. We may have a part in finding what's submitted though.
My question . Does they buyer ,supplier of the fixtures need to buy things like the legs that don't always come with cans, or the ceiling wires to hang them,or the dimmers etc?

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The only lighting normally supplied by me would be, in residential, cans and their respective trims and lamps. Lighting fixtures beyond that were typically supplied by the HO or GC. My responsibility ended at the box. I would supply the appropriate circuitry and box with the only responsibility with the fixture being to assemble and hang it. Commercial jobs pretty much anything above "base building" (2x2, 2x4 and regular switches) was supplied by the GC or designer/architect. Like Infinity said, it's their baby when things go wrong.

Had a job a few years ago where the designer and the building owner had colluded, to save money, and purchased the light fixtures. When we showed up, they were on the front walkway of the building with one of the fixtures out of the box by one of the columns admiring how wonderful they looked. We asked if they had the bases and bulbs for the fixtures, they did. How did they want the fixtures oriented, etc. We were good to go. Designer hops in her little coupe races off, owner heads into the building.

We commence to removing and installing a couple dozen fixtures. Completed the job and had everything cleaned up and (all the trash and debris) boxed and set back on the pallet, neat as a pin. Right when we were putting our tools away, the designer zips back up to the site, hops out of the car, takes on look at the fixtures and says, "those are the wrong size." My response, "that's what you bought..."

We wound up removing and re-boxing them all. Go to the owner, give her the bill, "Why am I paying for this? They're the wrong fixtures!" "Because, ma'am, we did the work. It's not my fault that the fixtures you and your designer gave us were wrong." I did get paid and I did get called back to install the correct ones.

 

[brantmacga]

Typically we don't supply(buy) lighting. We may have a part in finding what's submitted though.
My question . Does they buyer ,supplier of the fixtures need to buy things like the legs that don't always come with cans, or the ceiling wires to hang them,or the dimmers etc?

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The fixture brackets should be included with the fixtures, but supporting means will be on you, unless the fixtures are specified with aircraft cable hangers, etc. . ., and that will typically be listed in the fixture schedule.

Dimmers are probably on you, but you would need to clarify. I typically will get a BOM on the fixture package if the owner is supplying, and I clarify everything in my proposal. I know most of the times when I send an RFQ for fixtures, it will come back with dimmers included even if I don't have them in my take-off; and that's on larger jobs that several people are bidding.

Anyway, if you don't get a BOM while bidding, you should at least get one before you sign a contract. I will ask for this on anything the owner is providing; fixtures, gear, etc. . . .

As for responsibility, the specs will typically say "the contractor" is responsible for receiving them, storing them, etc. . . ; check for that, price accordingly. I've seen specs also that require you to provide a certain amount of warranty labor for fixtures provided by others.

To me, it doesn't matter who buys what; just clearly word your proposal and charge whatever dollars you need to make it worth your while.

 

[electricalist]

The fixture brackets should be included with the fixtures, but supporting means will be on you, unless the fixtures are specified with aircraft cable hangers, etc. . ., and that will typically be listed in the fixture schedule.

Dimmers are probably on you, but you would need to clarify. I typically will get a BOM on the fixture package if the owner is supplying, and I clarify everything in my proposal. I know most of the times when I send an RFQ for fixtures, it will come back with dimmers included even if I don't have them in my take-off; and that's on larger jobs that several people are bidding.

Anyway, if you don't get a BOM while bidding, you should at least get one before you sign a contract. I will ask for this on anything the owner is providing; fixtures, gear, etc. . . .

As for responsibility, the specs will typically say "the contractor" is responsible for receiving them, storing them, etc. . . ; check for that, price accordingly. I've seen specs also that require you to provide a certain amount of warranty labor for fixtures provided by others.

To me, it doesn't matter who buys what; just clearly word your proposal and charge whatever dollars you need to make it worth your while.

My sir. At my prior co we had use emt for can legs and find dimmers.
At my present Co they come with the lighting package.

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[69gp]

I have always supplied the lighting package with the exception of National Chain store fit outs. in these cases they will supply all fixtures, lamps and accessories. EC is responsible for accepting the delivery and installing. i have never had a problem. I have received damaged fixtures but they have reps that are good to work with and ship out replacements right away. all I do is put a markup on the lighting package. These stores will also supply panels and transformers for the fit out.

 

[Strathead]

It was stated in passing, but I would like to highlight, clarify in your bid. There are a ton of ways to handle it. Typically, I am used to receiving, handling, inventory and installing. Unlike Dennis suggested, I have never, and would never accept responsibility for missing parts for fixtures I'm not supplying. I also require the dimmers to be supplied with the fixtures. If it looks like they don't want to, I will just through in an adder for $100 each and highlight it in yellow on my proposal. Let them decide whether they want to do the research and provide the right ones or pay me to. Here is a copy of the exact wording I used on a job I am currently doing. It was unusual in that the GC was going to receive the fixtures. I will usually include a line about receiving, inventorying and storing on site only, if we are receiving. If there is ever an argument about who supplies what, I feel that anything that is an option from the lighting supplier is their responsibility and the couple times I needed to argue, I just referred to similar jobs were I supplied the lights and what I required from my fixture supplier.

1. Lighting fixtures provided and received by others. Installation on the job site only by us.

a. All pendants, lamps mounts and accessories provided by others​

b. Strut, threaded rod and other mounting hardware by us.​

 

[bradleyelectric]

If they've gone to the trouble of creating a fixture schedule, there should be a note somewhere as to who is responsible for the miscellaneous items, and more importantly, for shortages. A good product cut sheet should indicate what comes in the box, otherwise either include a note in your bid response excluding those items or price the bid to cover them and be sure to note that too.

I see too many posts here where the EC has to receive the material (that they didn't purchase) and then several weeks later when they open the boxes half the screws and whatnot are missing and then it's a big to do about who makes good on that. The GC usually claims that the EC should have notified the GC or PM when the material was delivered so it's the EC's problem now, etc.

The way I handle this is if I didn't supply it, it aint my problem till it's hung. I'll help you try to find it if we don't know where it is and I ask my guys to try to help the site super by getting all the fixtures in one area, but if I'm not supplying it I'm not obligated to unload it, move it or count it, and it's not my problem. I'll usually help because that's the way I am, but if it's short or someone through it away get me another one and I'll hang it, but my guy didn't sell it to me and I don't know who your guy is, so call him and get it straight. If it goes bad or doesn't work get me a replacement ballast for it. I can get one and bill you. If they want to save themselves a couple bucks by supplying the fixtures I'm not coving the warranty.

 

[brantmacga]

The way I handle this is if I didn't supply it, it aint my problem till it's hung.

I won't disagree with you, but my advice to anyone else reading this is to check the spec book, because I have seen it several times written where the EC will be responsible for unloading & inventorying fixtures furnished by the owner. Just add labor hours accordingly. This also goes for the gear.



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