Lighting Upgrade

[megawatt]

Doing some design / build for a large Beauty Salon. Cust is wanting to replace existing 2x4 troffers, maintain the level of lighting She now has, and see a reduction in Her electric bill.
I'm was thinking about replacing all existing ballasts with electronic type & tubes w T8's. This would be the most economical for Her, saving some labor costs.
Has anyone tried this method, or do You go for all new fixtures ? The main PITA about changing them is the roll insulation laying on top of the tiles, lights etc....a real mess. Also I don't see the lights individually supported, just laying in the track. This would mean the new lights would all have to be tied to the steel, and that's the only way I would consider it.
The worst part of the whole deal is this Lady doesn't own this building. She's just trying to lower Her monthly Electric bill, and will be paying for this out of Her pocket. Not much help from Landlord, and relocating would kill Her business.
Any suggestions, or Comments ?

 

[Mr. Bill]

Electronic ballast T8 lamps are the most efficient light source. Try to get 3000K lamps with a high CIR value. (>80) The warm color and broader spectrum of lighting will make the people look better.

It sounds messy either way you do it. Newer troffers are designed around the T8 lamp so more light will get out of the fixture. But it sounds like a mess to open up that ceiling.

If you keep the fixture and replace the ballast and lamps then you will probably need to also change the lamp sockets and do a little rewiring. Have fun.

 

[ITO]

You could be getting into a pickle with this one.

Unless there is a rebate program from the city, the payback can take years and she may not be getting what she expects. Do the math and see, it is not that great of a deal.

 

[megawatt]

I didn't think She would save that much, but I am running some calculations on it.
I'm considering the advantages, including the reduced heat that 50+ ballasts bring into the space.
I don't want Her to spend a large sum of money to see little benefit, but I have been trying to help Her get these operating costs in check.
I found one HVAC flex duct that had come loose from the vent, & was pumping AC above the tiles !! Fixed that.
I then replaced 2 old thermostats, with the 5+1+1 programable type, & have reduced Her Electric bill from 5456 KWH in July of 2006 to 3769 KWH this July !
That was a good Return on Investment.
Anybody have an idea how much heat a 2-40 T12 magnetic ballast puts out ?

 

[Mr. Bill]

I think a 2-lamp, T12, magnetic ballast draws about 87W. So 87W worth of heat is generated. But a recessed fixture only emits a fraction of the heat. The rest goes into the ceiling space. An HVAC engineer would know that fraction.

Cooling cost savings for less lighting energy is about an additional 15%.

Lighting renovations can take a while to pay for the upfront cost.

Cleaning the old lenses is also good for more light output. 20% more light might not be noticable to some people.

 

[mdshunk]

I can buy a 4 lamp T8 lay-in fixture with an ordinary A12 refractor cheaper than I can buy the ballasts. When doing a T12 to T8 retrofit, I consider the ease of changing the whole fixture in a particular place along with the general condition of the existing fixtures. That's a decision you'd have to make. Other than that, I've done thousands of T12 to T8 ballast swaps. You have to consider also that you'll have to change out between 10% and 25% of the old tombstones, depending on how much professional maintenance the fixtures have had in the past. The ballast swap can be accomplished during business hours, but a fixture swap is best done after hours, due to the dirt normally accumulated on top.

 

[mdshunk]

Perhaps you could offer to wire for bi-level switching or wire to switch some of the unneeded fixtures off during the slower hours of their working day? I know the goal was to maintin the level of lighting, but larger beauty shops might only have people working at the front-most two chairs or so during slow times, and most of the shop is unnecessarily being illuminated. Just an idea.

 

[jeremy b]

have you thought about going from 4 lamps to 2 lamps and use a reflector. there are companies out there that make kits for this

 

[steve66]

The Lithonia RT5 (or a similar) fixture with a T5 lamp would be even more efficient. But more expensive also.

How much of the bill is due to lighting anyway. I bet the curling irons they leave plugged in all day long and the HVAC are a larger part of the bill.

Does this happen to be one of those shops that also have the tanning beds? Those are power hungry.

 

[tonyou812]

I agree with ITO im sure this lady thinks that what ever you do she is going to see some significant change in her bill. And just think of how disappointed she will be when she has to wait a few years to have it all pay off. Look why dont you do the math your self and show her that it will take a long time for her to see any pay off. Im mean really at best what kind of reduction is this lady going to see in the immediate future. She will probably admire you for your honesty and remember you for that and maybe use you or refer you to other people because of you not taking advantage of her. She must be trying to rub two nickles together in the first place how do you think she is going to feel after she gets the bill. Marc's idea with the split ballast is also a good one too but im sure this lady is looking for somekind of significant change. This one smells like trouble to me. But its your call man.

 

[megawatt]

Thanks to all who responded to My post. I talked to Her briefly the other day, & explained that She may not live long enough to break even.
But it seems She is weary of replacing several tubes a week, in addition to the KWH costs....so I will probably advise Her to replace the entire fixtures, moving them to better light their task areas, with some T8's soon !