Lights in closets

[brother]

Well this beats all. I heard that a guy tried to argue over the restriction where light fixtures could be installed in closets. He claims it was 'NOT' a clothes closet but a 'storage' closet. Well i do not believe the code is just limiting to 'clothes' closets for staying away from combustible material when there is not enough space. Maybe someone need to submit a proposal to actually say 'all closets including storage' for article 410.

 

[M. D.]

My 2008 410.16 says

Luminaires in Clothes Closets

Maybe he has a 410.11 Luminaire Near Combustible Material

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well i do not believe the code is just limiting to 'clothes' closets for staying away from combustible material when there is not enough space.

You don't believe it or you don't think it should be? Common sense says lights should be kept away from combustibles but the NEC specifies clothes closets not closets and the 2008 definies a clothes closet

Clothes Closet. A non-habitable room or space intended primarily for storage of garments and apparel.

 

[brother]

You don't believe it or you don't think it should be? Common sense says lights should be kept away from combustibles but the NEC specifies clothes closets not closets and the 2008 definies a clothes closet

Ok, maybe it should be. I read the code again, (2005 NEC) is what we are still under and it just talks about clothes closets. The problem with 'storage' closets is when boxes are piled up and they are 'combustible' Im sure the UL manufacturer listing will say 'keep away' from combustible materials and can not install anything against the UL listing according to the NEC. And yes this is a COMMON sense issue and not necessarily written in the NEC.

 

[iwire]

Ok, maybe it should be. I read the code again, (2005 NEC) is what we are still under and it just talks about clothes closets.

Ask yourself why the CMP used the word 'clothes' in front of "closet'. It was not an accident, they did it intentionally or it would not be there.

So it says what it says and it means what it says.

And yes this is a COMMON sense issue and not necessarily written in the NEC.

Exactly, as written now it is not an NEC issue, that section only applies to clothes closets.

If you feel it should apply to all closets then you need to put in a proposal to have it changed, but IMO it would not be accepted. Here is the ROP for adding the definition of clothes closets.

1-20 Log #358 NEC-P01 Final Action: Accept in Principle
(100. Clothes Closet (New) )

Submitter: Michael J. Johnston, Plano, TX

Recommendation: Add a new definition to read as follows:

Clothes Closet. A small room, chamber, or area used primarily for storage of
clothes.

Substantiation: This proposed definition is intended to provide clarification in the Code as to the installations that the rules in 240.24(D), 410.8, and 550.11 (A) apply to. If the area in question meets the criteria provided in the proposed definition, then the rules apply. If the area in question does not meet the criteria of the proposed definition, then all other rules applicable to rooms or living spaces, such as those provided in 210.52 and 210.70, 210.12, etc., would be applicable. It seems to be a problem for those encountering larger rooms that are intended to function as closets for clothes and storage. Folks typically want relief from the clothes closet rules in the NEC, but do not want to adhere to the other rules that would apply if the area in question is determined not to be a clothes closet. The majority of the wording in the definition was derived from the International Building Code. The words “or area” have been added to cover common applications encountered in the field where the situation is an area and not a room.

Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle

The panel has revised the submitter’s definition as follows:

“A non-habitable room or space intended primarily for storage of garments
and apparel.”

Panel Statement: CMP-1 concurs that a need exists to define the term
“clothes closet.” CMP-1 notes that In accordance with the NEC Style Manual,
Section 2.2.2, definitions shall not contain the term that is being defined. The panel believes this action meets the intent of the submitter.

Number Eligible to Vote: 12

Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12

 

[cowboyjwc]

I kind of agree that the article should be "looked" at at least.

I believe we had this discussion on here some time back and we started arguing over the difference between a "hall closet" and a "coat closet" and since they weren't a "clothes closet" then you could put a light in there.

You could use 410.5 (2005).

 

[jameselectric]

Yes it diffinitely needs to be look at. I know the intent is to help prevent fires with the 'closet' issue, it just frustrates me to see people not want to use common sense when it comes to storage. If they can make a requirement for space in a clothes closet surely they can make a requirement for a 'storage' closets when people pile boxes a mile high in there.

 

[iwire]

Don't forget 410.5 (2005) as John pointed out, that applies everywhere.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

art. 410.5 (2005) is now 410.11 (2008)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is the new ruling in 2008 for clothes closets. Take note 410.16 (A)(3) and (C)

410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.
(A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Listed luminaires of the following types shall be permitted to be installed in a closet:
(1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire with a completely enclosed lamp
(2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire
(3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identified as suitable for installation within the storage area
(B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.
(C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a storage space shall be as follows:
(1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
(2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling
(3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed in the wall or the ceiling
(4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires installed in the wall or the ceiling
(5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall be permitted to be installed within the storage space where identified for this use.