Lights work on back up source not utility... :/

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bgelectric

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So im working in a new building, I wired up lights in halls to bz-50 pp and motions in halls. They worked fine until we tested the genset.
Now they only work when the circuit is backed up by the genset not utility power???
When utility power is on the motions leds are on detecting motion but do not turn on the lights...
When the lights are running off the genset they work as they should:?
 
Yup, sounds strange. Do you suppose that the genset voltage is noticeably higher that utility? I wonder if the units no longer see the motion inputs at the minimum threshold when on utility, due to a higher threshold being 'burned-in' by the higher standby power... :blink:
 
I measured the voltage and it was not noticeably higher.
Why would the power pack work off utility and then only off the genset...?
 
bgelectric said:
I measured the voltage and it was not noticeably higher.
Why would the power pack work off utility and then only off the genset...?
Click to expand...

are you sure the power pack is actually getting power from the utility? did you check for the correct voltage right at the unit? check L-L (if this exists), L-N and N-G right at the unit when it is on utility power.
 
petersonra said:
are you sure the power pack is actually getting power from the utility? did you check for the correct voltage right at the unit? check L-L (if this exists), L-N and N-G right at the unit when it is on utility power.
Click to expand...

Yes it is. The leds on the motions light up and blink when motion is detected.
 
bgelectric said:
Yes it is. The leds on the motions light up and blink when motion is detected.
Click to expand...
That indicates the motions are getting power, but does not verify the output, nor that the pp is switching. You have to check the motions control output and the pp load switch.
 
Volta said:
Yup, sounds strange. Do you suppose that the genset voltage is noticeably higher that utility? I wonder if the units no longer see the motion inputs at the minimum threshold when on utility, due to a higher threshold being 'burned-in' by the higher standby power... :blink:
Click to expand...

I am thinking same thing. If they are 120-277 input ballasts and the generator voltage was significantly high enough they may no longer work on whatever utility voltage actually is and are looking for a higher input.

My understanding on many of these ballasts is once they have been used on the high voltage end of the range they will no longer work on the low voltage end of the range.
 
kwired said:
I am thinking same thing. If they are 120-277 input ballasts and the generator voltage was significantly high enough they may no longer work on whatever utility voltage actually is and are looking for a higher input.

My understanding on many of these ballasts is once they have been used on the high voltage end of the range they will no longer work on the low voltage end of the range.
Click to expand...

I've heard that too, but I have not seen it yet.

Why would the gen set be set at 277 but the utility is only 120 volts?:blink:
 
LEO2854 said:
I've heard that too, but I have not seen it yet.

Why would the gen set be set at 277 but the utility is only 120 volts?:blink:
Click to expand...
I didn't mean that 277 was applied, maybe something like 135 - 150 was applied and now these ballasts don't work on nominal 120 anymore.
 
kwired said:
I am thinking same thing. If they are 120-277 input ballasts and the generator voltage was significantly high enough they may no longer work on whatever utility voltage actually is and are looking for a higher input.

My understanding on many of these ballasts is once they have been used on the high voltage end of the range they will no longer work on the low voltage end of the range.
Click to expand...

kwired said:
I didn't mean that 277 was applied, maybe something like 135 - 150 was applied and now these ballasts don't work on nominal 120 anymore.
Click to expand...

You could verify this by checking the voltage at the power leads to the ballast from both the genny and utility. If you feel this is the case of a higher voltage "burning" in the ballast, then you could try another ballast with utility only and see if the lights work.

If you want to take a chance and ruin another ballast, you could then run it on the genny, then try again with utility power.
 
Little Bill said:
You could verify this by checking the voltage at the power leads to the ballast from both the genny and utility. If you feel this is the case of a higher voltage "burning" in the ballast, then you could try another ballast with utility only and see if the lights work.

If you want to take a chance and ruin another ballast, you could then run it on the genny, then try again with utility power.
Click to expand...
I don't believe ballast is the proper term here. They are called power packs. The only thing the truly power is the 24V sensor and the internal relay
 
Smart $ said:
I don't believe ballast is the proper term here. They are called power packs. The only thing the truly power is the 24V sensor and the internal relay
Click to expand...
I agree its the power pack not the ballasts that are the issue.
Both utility and genset provide 120v not 277.
 
kwired said:
I am thinking same thing. If they are 120-277 input ballasts and the generator voltage was significantly high enough they may no longer work on whatever utility voltage actually is and are looking for a higher input.

My understanding on many of these ballasts is once they have been used on the high voltage end of the range they will no longer work on the low voltage end of the range.
Click to expand...

LEO2854 said:
I've heard that too, but I have not seen it yet.

Why would the gen set be set at 277 but the utility is only 120 volts?:blink:
Click to expand...

kwired said:
I didn't mean that 277 was applied, maybe something like 135 - 150 was applied and now these ballasts don't work on nominal 120 anymore.
Click to expand...

Little Bill said:
You could verify this by checking the voltage at the power leads to the ballast from both the genny and utility. If you feel this is the case of a higher voltage "burning" in the ballast, then you could try another ballast with utility only and see if the lights work.

If you want to take a chance and ruin another ballast, you could then run it on the genny, then try again with utility power.
Click to expand...

Smart $ said:
I don't believe ballast is the proper term here. They are called power packs. The only thing the truly power is the 24V sensor and the internal relay
Click to expand...

I was only going by what was said before me!
Why didn't they get a "spanking"?:p
 
Smart $ said:
I don't believe ballast is the proper term here. They are called power packs. The only thing the truly power is the 24V sensor and the internal relay
Click to expand...
OK I wasn't quite following what OP had there. I did look up the BZ-50 and it is also a 120-277 volt supplied unit and possibly could still have a similar problem if generator voltage was too high.
 
kwired said:
OK I wasn't quite following what OP had there. I did look up the BZ-50 and it is also a 120-277 volt supplied unit and possibly could still have a similar problem if generator voltage was too high.
Click to expand...

To give a little more detail.
I have 4 PP doing the same thing. All on the same circuit all on different levels.
I dont see why 120-277 range would matter since it should be able to work within the 120-277v range. Not at the highest volts applied within its range and no longer be capable of operating at lower voltage....
 
Well, the motions at 24 volts may be more sensitive than the power packs themselves. I would assume the PPs regulate the output voltage within each input range, but if not, or not well, perhaps the problem might be the outputs of the motions now when on utility power rather than the receiving inputs of the PPs.
 
bgelectric said:
To give a little more detail.
I have 4 PP doing the same thing. All on the same circuit all on different levels.
I dont see why 120-277 range would matter since it should be able to work within the 120-277v range. Not at the highest volts applied within its range and no longer be capable of operating at lower voltage....
Click to expand...
We can continue to speculate or you can take some measurements...???

PP LV out to motions (Blk-Red) = ?
Motions control out to PP (Blk-Blu), motion = ?, no motion = ?
PP switching (Hot-Load), motion = ?, no motion = ?

Measurements on utility and if possible repeat on backup.
 
Does everything else work properly on both utility and generator power?

I'm sure I don't understanding the entire setup, like where the transfer switch is and what other circuits are involved, but when the circuit is on utility power, it it actually getting real power? Say, enough to operate a 500w lamp? I'm thinking that there may be enough induced voltage to operate the motion detector(s) but not actually light the lamps.

This is, of course, pretty much a WAG :D.
 
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