Liquid Nails

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charlie b

charlie b

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I have an RFI from an EC requesting to use "Liquid Nails" as an adhesive to secure metal outlet boxes to concrete ceilings and floors. Apparently, the nearby tenants have been complaining about the noise of drilling holes for bolts. I know the NEC requires the boxes to be secured. But is this an acceptable method?
 
...there is a chemical caulking to support rods, but its designed for that ( a hole must still be drilled tho to fill with caulking). Thats a reeason for nite work most of the time, noise :rant:
 
charlie b said:
I have an RFI from an EC requesting to use "Liquid Nails" as an adhesive to secure metal outlet boxes to concrete ceilings and floors. Apparently, the nearby tenants have been complaining about the noise of drilling holes for bolts. I know the NEC requires the boxes to be secured. But is this an acceptable method?
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We have used liquid nails or silicone to secure boxes in back-splashes and cabinets. IMO it's sufficient to secure the box in place. I've even used it my own kitchen island to secure a 1900 box in the sidewall of the cabinet and ten years later it's still there with no problem.
 
It will work, for a while, then the adhesive will get brittle and fail. May take a few years. That may be good enough for the application.

I have used it and spray foam also to secure boxes in tough, no better answer situations, but there was also some kind of finish that would help support the box to augment the adhesive.
 
I would personally only use adhesive as a last resort.

If it's commercial is the option of working outside of office hours available? Start early or work later. I see it often where things get laid out during the day, show up an hour or 2 earlier and pop all your holes first thing.


Ramset also make a gas actuated tool that is very quiet compared to a hammer drill or powder shot.
No ticket required, and has tons of fastening options. We use them in very busy public areas with no complaints.
http://www.ramset.com/Products/Tools/ToolsbyApplication/ElectricalMechanical/T3ss.aspx
 
I've used concrete epoxy to secure 4 square boxes to the inside of a shipping container I didn't want to put screws through. It held great. I'm sure using it on something even more porous such as concrete would hold even better.

Or like mentioned above, how about a Ramset?
 
ActionDave said:
Someone is going to jump in about the UL listabilty of Liquid Nails I bet.:roll::)
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If you don't want to use LN that is cool but I see nothing wrong with the ECs plan

I have a large modular meter center hanging on a wall with liquid nails. *





* used liquid nails to glue 2x4s on the flat to a block wall and then secured service to that.
 
iwire said:
If you don't want to use LN that is cool but I see nothing wrong with the ECs plan
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Don't go gettin' all gruff and serious on me now. I put a smiley in my last post.

I also said I have used the stuff in my first post, I'm all for doing whatever works, but I would not use LN only to glue boxes up to concrete. It gets brittle. If you use it to hold a box in place and something goes around it, like wood trim or drywall it will be fine for a hundred years.


I have a large modular meter center hanging on a wall with liquid nails. *





* used liquid nails to glue 2x4s on the flat to a block wall and then secured service to that.
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See! Wood was involved.
 
ActionDave said:
Don't go gettin' all gruff and serious on me now. I put a smiley in my last post.
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:rant::rant:


:lol:

Actually I was not and sorry if it seemed that way. I was really trying to say if you not into it I wont try to change your mind. There have been some well documented failures of construction adhesives so I cant say they are perfect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse


but I would not use LN only to glue boxes up to concrete. It gets brittle.
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To each their own. :)

See! Wood was involved.
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:D

That and about 20 - 2" pipes entering the bottom of it through a slab. Not likely to move even if the LN fails. :cool:
 
charlie b said:
I have an RFI from an EC requesting to use "Liquid Nails" as an adhesive to secure metal outlet boxes to concrete ceilings and floors. Apparently, the nearby tenants have been complaining about the noise of drilling holes for bolts. I know the NEC requires the boxes to be secured. But is this an acceptable method?
Click to expand...

if the adhesive is supporting only the box, it's probably not an issue.
if the box is supporting a light fixture, i wouldn't.

gas operated pin guns work pretty well. they don't hit as hard
as a powder LV gun, but you can fire repeatedly to set the pin.
also, you can pin the straps down, and it goes fast. the gas cartridges
don't seem to store worth a damn, however. they go flat once opened
pretty quickly. but in occupied TI work where i've got to shoot ceiling
wires, it works well. i've never had people complain about it.

i've got the little Milwaukee hammer drill that has the accessory
dust vac, and that is pretty quiet, and doesn't leave any mess behind,
and will punch 1/4" holes all day long.
 
iwire said:
That and about 20 - 2" pipes entering the bottom of it through a slab. Not likely to move even if the LN fails. :cool:
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I put some panels up at a shopping mall using toggle bolts through drywall to hold them in place. Ten or more pipes coming out of the slab, fifty or so going out of the top. I got called a hack every day for a month. That was ten years ago. None of them have come down. I'm not worried they will either.
 
There are a number of different products under the "liquid nails" name. If the product says it is good for concrete/metal joints I would be fine with it.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There are a number of different products under the "liquid nails" name. If the product says it is good for concrete/metal joints I would be fine with it.
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These products get tested to death and if used for what it's listed for, along with a touch of common sense (if you don't feel comfortable using it, then you probably shouldn't be or just augment it with something else), I agree there is no problem.
 
Dap makes a glue called StrongStik which i have used with great success gluing metal, plastic and fiberglass boxes into cement and plaster and gluing metal boxes onto the surface of concrete.

It says 10 minutes, but that's if it's put on thin. I make sure there's enough to come through the holes into the box. Next day I'm ok hanging 15-20 lbs on it
 
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