liquid propane gas inside house

T

tico17

Member
Location
fort lauderdale, florida
we have a project that plumber ran, LP gas inside house for fire places and stove, from tank to house is plastic and inside wall they used a plastic pipe with metal inside.

they have a lot of leaks and are blaming on me EC. they said is not grounded and its causing Insulation to come off and all the leaks that it have its cause by not being grounded.

will an electrical discharge cause problems in his pipe.
 
Probably csst, they have had a lot of issues with lighting blowing holes in it. It is supposed to be bonded at the entrance, but I think the code has changed, and it can be bonded anywhere all its route. They put it off onto the electricians to bond it, but I think it should be the gas line installer responsibility that verifies that it’s bonded before turning on the gas.
 
tico17 said:
we have a project that plumber ran, LP gas inside house for fire places and stove, from tank to house is plastic and inside wall they used a plastic pipe with metal inside.

they have a lot of leaks and are blaming on me EC. they said is not grounded and its causing Insulation to come off and all the leaks that it have its cause by not being grounded.

will an electrical discharge cause problems in his pipe.
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It is not your job to bond it, unless that was required in your scope of work. It is the installing contractors job to bond it. If the local rules do not permit that contractor to install the bonding, then he has to hire you or another contractor to install the bonding.
Note the bond is only required for some types of CSST as pointed out in post #2.
If there has not been lightning activity, the plumber is spouting BS and very likely he did not correctly install the CSST.
 
tico17 said:
will an electrical discharge cause problems in his pipipe.
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No it will not! The plumber is trying to evade his responsibility. Don't let that happen.

You did not install the pipe; the plumber did. If he thought some electrical thing was needed, he should have called for an electrician at the time of his installation.

If the pipe is indeed CSST (you didn't make that clear), then there will likely be a need for "bonding" (note: not "grounding"). But that is related to possible lightning strikes, not to any possible stray currents that somehow magically found their way onto the metal parts of the CSST.
 
pipe is CSST black, and Installer never asked to be bonded, i never seen that flexible gas line before and was installed at last minute. I'm trying to educate myself with CSST bonding requirements and it was until 2009 that National Fuel Gas Code required to be bonded. Us as EC don't use their codes and we know metal pipes and copper water lines need to be bonded and CSST is not a common practice for gas so i did not bond it. will it be my fault since installer was not educated to inspect work before gas was turn on?
 
tico17 said:
pipe is CSST black, and Installer never asked to be bonded, i never seen that flexible gas line before and was installed at last minute. I'm trying to educate myself with CSST bonding requirements and it was until 2009 that National Fuel Gas Code required to be bonded. Us as EC don't use their codes and we know metal pipes and copper water lines need to be bonded and CSST is not a common practice for gas so i did not bond it. will it be my fault since installer was not educated to inspect work before gas was turn on?
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Special bonding requirements for CSST are not in the NEC. The requirements for bonding of CSST wlll be determind by the manfacturer and be part of its NRTL listing. Not all CSST has spectial bonding requirements. In any event, it is the gas installers responsiblity.
 
On NEC this is the only requirement that i found, since CSST has had issues before now is required but i feel that installer should have required it in his installation.

250.104(B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to any of the following:
(1) Equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system

now all stoves have 120v gas pilots, and all gas water heaters have 120v pilots, these have equipment grounding conductors so it will cover requirement #1
 
If a permit was pulled then a leak test would have been done, this test pressurizes the piping for a period of time and the test gage shows no drop. Also a soap leak test is
 
I'm going to visit site tomorrow and take pictures owner said insulation looks different like worn out in house that is energized compared to the other 2 that are not energized. and last time that i ask plumbers they said it has multiple holes in pipe. they had a different company inspecting pipe and they only point out that is not bonded.
 
tico17 said:
On NEC this is the only requirement that i found, since CSST has had issues before now is required but i feel that installer should have required it in his installation.

250.104(B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, a building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be bonded to any of the following:
(1) Equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely to energize the piping system

now all stoves have 120v gas pilots, and all gas water heaters have 120v pilots, these have equipment grounding conductors so it will cover requirement #1
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This has nothing to do with the "special" bonding required for some brands of CSST and I'll say it again, this is not part of NEC 250.104.
 
texie said:
This has nothing to do with the "special" bonding required for some brands of CSST and I'll say it again, this is not part of NEC 250.104.
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thanks, i can sleep better now, tomorrow i just have to face this problem but once insurances get involve they will find out that plumbing contractor never requested a bonding wire or installed one.
 
tico17 said:
. . its causing Insulation to come off and all the leaks that it have its cause by not being grounded.
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It occurred to me last night that this is laughably absurd. It is the metal part of the CSST that keeps the gas contained, not the insulation. Remove part or all of the insulation by whatever means you wish, and the gas will still have no way to leak out of the pipe.
 
charlie b said:
It occurred to me last night that this is laughably absurd. It is the metal part of the CSST that keeps the gas contained, not the insulation. Remove part or all of the insulation by whatever means you wish, and the gas will still have no way to leak out of the pipe.
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Probably the insulation is coming off because they dragged it across the framing, so they probably damaged the stainless core too.
 
charlie b said:
It occurred to me last night that this is laughably absurd. It is the metal part of the CSST that keeps the gas contained, not the insulation. Remove part or all of the insulation by whatever means you wish, and the gas will still have no way to leak out of the pipe.
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Plus, the insulation has to be trimmed short at each end to allow for engagement into the fitting.
 
petersonra said:
You have a standing pilot? I thought those were all banned as being too simple and inexpensive.
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I ASSUME so. The (20 year old) subdivision was built with "Direct Vent" exhaust systems on the water heaters. There is a black pushbutton to fire a piezo ignitor which I've never used. All I do is hook up a garden hose and flush it every year or so.
 
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