Little Girl Gets Shocked

[bphgravity]

From the Charlotte Sun Newspaper:

PORT CHARLOTTE -- A 14-year-old Port Charlotte girl suffered an electrical shock after she grabbed an extension cord after swimming in her family's pool Wednesday.

The girl, Samantha Davison, was apparently saved by her 9-year-old brother, Andrew, according to their mother, Rosie Davison, of 1855 Arapahoe Circle, Port Charlotte.

Andrew climbed from the pool and pried the electric cord from his sister's hands, Rosie Davison said.

Both siblings have a few second-degree burns from the incident. Samantha was treated for her burns at Peace River Regional Medical Center and was set to be released later Wednesday.

"She's extremely lucky," Rosie Davison said. "She's fine.

"If it wasn't for Andrew getting the cord off her, goodness knows what shape she'd have been in."

The incident happened after the girl got out of the pool and went to close a lanai door. To do so, she had to move the extension cord, her mother said.

"(The shock) threw her back and she couldn't get off the cord," her mother said.

The cord's insulation apparently had a cut in it that allowed the accident to occur, Rosie Davison said.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

i can see many more of these incidents happening with the use of all these water slides. they come with a gfi protected cord cap which supply's power to the fan that maintains them inflated. but most people use an extension cord to feed the slide which can be a death trap!

 

[petersonra]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Another example of good intentions foiled by reality?

 

[physis]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

I can't tell but it sounds like contact with both conductors was through the cord. If it was GFI protection would have done nothing. If it was line current to earth a GFI would have tripped, at least you'd hope.

There's never the right kind of information in these reports to get much of an idea what led up to the indcident. I'd be interested in some of circumstances that are behind it happening.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Apparently, the mother had run an extension cord out to their dock to charge a boat battery overnight. In the process, she closed the sliding glass door over the cord. This cut into the cord exposing the conductors.

 

[physis]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

I think I may have been wrong in my first post. Even if the shock current were exclusively from the line and neutral in the cord, there still could have been enough of a current path through the wet girl to ground that the GFI might have interrupted the circuit. (Given it worked correctly)

I am and will remain a GFI advocate. They just don't cost that much. Around water. They can only help.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

phy,
there is no mention of gfi in the original post. he gfi can only work when monitoring that portion of the circuit that is returning through another path....... then many people use an extention cord to feed these pools and slides --the condition of that cord and the terminations can cause electricutions!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[physis]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

I know they're no good if the path is line to neutral. But if the current can get to ground through water it ought to trip.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Originally posted by physis: But if the current can get to ground through water it ought to trip.

I agree. So I conclude there was no GFI. Here's why I say that:

Originally posted by bphgravity: Apparently, the mother had run an extension cord out to their dock to charge a boat battery overnight. In the process, she closed the sliding glass door over the cord.

If this is true, then the cord was probably not plugged into a GFI outlet. I am guessing that there are no outdoor outlets, GFI or otherwise, available in the area. Otherwise she would not have run a cord to an inside outlet. That was her mistake. I have outdoor outlets, but they are not even grounded, let alone GFI. So if I need to operate a portable tool outdoors, I run an extension cord through a bathroom window to the bathroom GFI outlet.

 

[charlie tuna]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

the typical water slide that is very popular today comes with a 120 volt blower motor that keeps the slide inflated for use. the blower comes with a twelve foot cord and the male end has a gfi device built into it. since the slide leaves quite a mess after it's use, most people place them away from thier house which requires an extention cord. if this cord is in poor shape or has exposed metallic surfaces at the female termination it produces a hazard to people who are dripping wet by lowering their body's resistance to current flow. we need to spred the word about this condition when seeing these things in operation!!!

 

[physis]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

the typical water slide that is very popular today comes with a 120 volt blower motor that keeps the slide inflated for use. the blower comes with a twelve foot cord and the male end has a gfi device built into it. since the slide leaves quite a mess after it's use, most people place them away from thier house which requires an extention cord. if this cord is in poor shape or has exposed metallic surfaces at the female termination it produces a hazard to people who are dripping wet by lowering their body's resistance to current flow. we need to spred the word about this condition when seeing these things in operation!!!

I think it would be in the best interest of whoever rents this thing out or whatever to provide a safe extention for it.

Trouble is, now the lawyers are circling waiting for the provided extension cord to hurt someone.

Less safe can be better when the layewrs are in charge.

 

[ron]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

We lost a good man last week due to a passing storm and lack of GFCI protection.
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050720/NEWS03/507200355/-1/spider

 

[petersonra]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Originally posted by physis:

[I think it would be in the best interest of whoever rents this thing out or whatever to provide a safe extention for it.

I suspect UL has some kind of standard for how long the cord can be. Sometimes I think their standards on these kind of things are counterproductive.

The other issue might be that with such a long cord in a damp area, the GFCI might well trip a lot just due to leakage.

I am not sure there is a good answer for this problem.

 

[physis]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Maybe it wouldn't hurt to allow a 12 mA GFI for some applications. That's still very unlikelikly to kill anybody and the current solution is no protection at all.

Does GFI really need to be 6 mA? That's very low. It's fine where it works. But it doesn't work everywhere and the first thing that's gonna happen when it doesn't is no GFI protection.

 

[iwire]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Originally posted by physis:
Does GFI really need to be 6 mA? That's very low. It's fine where it works. But it doesn't work everywhere and the first thing that's gonna happen when it doesn't is no GFI protection.

If it trips it's due to the equipment, wet cords, bad insulation etc. not the 6 ma trip level.

I believe 12 ma is above what has been shown to be lethal.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Sam,
I think that the 4-6mA level was selected because about 99% of adult males and 95% of adult females can "let go" of the energized item at this current level. As I recall, only about 75% of 5 year olds can let go at this current level.
Don

 

[physis]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

I have to plead lack of imformation on the what the real numbers are.

But I do know that you can't save anybody with GFI protection when there isn't any at all.

And I do "believe" (not know) that 6 mA isn't enough to usually kill a person, nor is 12 mA. But admittadly, I'm not sure.

I don't think we should build everything to standards based only on extreme circumstances when going that far might actually reduce the intended protection rather than cover everything possible. Cause you know it wont fix everything.

 

[OneWay]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Originally posted by physis:
I can't tell but it sounds like contact with both conductors was through the cord. If it was GFI protection would have done nothing. If it was line current to earth a GFI would have tripped, at least you'd hope.

There's never the right kind of information in these reports to get much of an idea what led up to the indcident. I'd be interested in some of circumstances that are behind it happening.

Anothe incident where a small child is victim of circumstance, maybe the homowner argued the code with the electrician here, and the electrician decided not to take a stand on the basic code requirements of electrical installations within 20' of a pool, or maybe within 10' of a pool, if you look there is a differance. Why wait till now to say I think I'll exceed the 20' rule and apply the 10' rule for GFCI protection. You see what I've been refrring to in my other postings?

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Even landscapers are not immune:

A Venice landscaper was electrocuted Saturday morning while trimming trees at a home near Englewood Beach.

The accident occurred at around 9:40 a.m., when Pavel Novak's aluminum ladder hit a Florida Power & Light Co. line while he was trimming palm trees at 7 Pearl St., said Bob Carpenter, public information officer for the Charlotte County Sheriff's Office.

The tragedy occurred when Novak tried to move his ladder from one spot to another. The sheriff's office press release said the man grabbed the ladder to move it and the ladder fell back onto the overhead wire.

FP&L was dispatched to the scene. Sheriff's deputies found burn marks on the man's left hand, on the ladder and on the power line.

A spokesman for the Charlotte County Fire & EMS reported that emergency management technicians did CPR at the scene, then transported Novak to Englewood Community Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

The body was taken to the Sarasota County Medical Examiner's Office.

The incident is also under investigation by FP&L, said company spokesman Mel Klein.

 

[charlie]

Re: Little Girl Gets Shocked

Bryan, if FP&L advertise as much as we do about staying away from HV lines, then the gene pool is being thinned out. We put a lot of ads on TV and the radio about this subject but people will say, "I will be careful, it is not that big of a deal. They are just trying to scare us."