Log Cabins

[jmellc]

I see nothing recent on log cabins. Past threads people mostly would only do T/M. I've been asked to bid one, but information is incomplete. GC knows they will basically follow 12 foot rule for receptacles. But I see huge open sloped ceilings, etc. All exterior walls are stacked logs, meaning routing and grooving; a major pain. No clue of lighting. I can guess close on small rooms, but people do all kinds of lighting in large open rooms.

Mfr's website says $3.50 to 4.00 per sq ft for electrical. I'm thinking that's about right for a normal house. The couple of log homes I helped on before were anything but normal.

I'm thinking of either T/M with no promises or a quote based on $6 per sq ft plus T/M for lighting. Probably won't get the job, but I can't lose my shirt either.

Anyone done log homes lately & have any words of wisdom?

 

[Buck Parrish]

Last one I did went real smooth. I went by and laid all the log walls out.

The builder had all the cut outs for the boxes and all the holes drilled up and down through logs. I used gangable cut out boxes.
I had a stipulation in my contract that if any of thier holes where my wires would not go through they would have an hourly charge added.

In some cases we could put wires behind the base board.

A good portin of it was on the inside walls, which in my case were not log.

 

[480sparky]

True log walls mean you need two things:

1. A complete list of the electrical, what goes where.
2. Time on the job while the logs are installed to run the wiring.

Without the first, there's no way to do the second. And without the second, there's no way to bid it.

 

[hurk27]

I have done a few, but most around here is insulated and finished on the inside (cold winters) and wasn't a big deal, except maybe outside light and receipts, but I did have one that had all outside walls exposed and also inside log walls exposed, we had 6 guys just chasing runs up the walls as each log was installed, and since the ceiling was vaulted, and the inside walls didn't go all the way up (open at the top) we had to chase all our fixture and fan wires all the way up to the roof on the outside walls, and over to the fixture points, and that was a pain, many would just drop down into the basement and be made up in junction box's, talk about a baby sitting job.:roll: I think we got about $16k for it which it was about 2200sf. but the ruff in was done in two days, maybe because that was how long it took them to set the logs

But they did drill the logs and cut out the box holes for us as it went up, we just directed them as to where and at least it did have a basement which everything was dumped into to sort out later.

Oh forgot to add, the inspector blew a cork because he couldn't inspect the NM runs inside of the logs:roll:

 

[jmellc]

Good to hear from you guys.

GC tells me some of the logs are predrilled & that he'll have a guy available as needed to do routing, grooving, etc. I haven't worked with him before, so that may work out & may not. I have a message out to the mfr for further info.

My thinking now is to give him an estimate based on ones I've done before but specify the job must be T/M, as we have too many unknowns. Est will include every contingency I can think of, plus a wide margin. Also travel time, as this job is 30 miles out from us & in a rural area far from any supply houses. Customer needs numbers yesterday, so up, up, up with the estimate. If things go smoother, he'll have a nice surprise.

If I ever buy a log cabin, I'll wire in in surface boxes & conduit. I get amused that people want the rustic look of a cabin, but want all wiring hidden in walls, same as "normal" houses with drywall/stud construction. And want it at a good price. To me, surface wiring goes along with the rustic look & keeps it simple.

I can see why your inspector didn't like wiring already in logs, but the only other way to see it would be for him to live on the job, with having to chase every log as it's laid.

 

[wireguy8169]

I see nothing recent on log cabins. Past threads people mostly would only do T/M. I've been asked to bid one, but information is incomplete. GC knows they will basically follow 12 foot rule for receptacles. But I see huge open sloped ceilings, etc. All exterior walls are stacked logs, meaning routing and grooving; a major pain. No clue of lighting. I can guess close on small rooms, but people do all kinds of lighting in large open rooms.

Mfr's website says $3.50 to 4.00 per sq ft for electrical. I'm thinking that's about right for a normal house. The couple of log homes I helped on before were anything but normal.

I'm thinking of either T/M with no promises or a quote based on $6 per sq ft plus T/M for lighting. Probably won't get the job, but I can't lose my shirt either.

Anyone done log homes lately & have any words of wisdom?

You said the wisest thing I can think "..I cant lose my shirt" if in doubt let it got or as you said bid it high and take a shot maybe you will get it. If the contractor is good (you said you haven't worked with him so you would only have second hand info) it should go as smooth as any other. But, your right with out knowing something you will be raising the risk. Good luck

 

[readydave8]

If they want rustic, what could be better than candles and whale oil lamps?

 

[renosteinke]

And folks laughed when I said I worked for "Amish Electric."

First off, what exactly is a 'log house?' A lot of them are simply timber-frame construction with a siding that looks like the walls are made of huge logs - but is only 1-3" thick. Inside, look at some of the beams and you'll find they're really boards formed to make a chase for pipes and wires.

A man with a router can cut a groove for the wires - but you'll want a huge radius for turns ... which can be an issue at corners. Personally, I'd avoid Romex, and sleeve the MC with EMT at corners. You can get really deep boxes too.

Running wires behind the baseboards is a clever, but illegal, trick. It's "illegal" because the wires need a 1/8" steel plate for protection if they're not at least 1-1/2" behind the face of the wall.

No matter the details, I suspect you'll be doing some serious drilling. Put way that hole-hog; instead, reach for the impact driver.

Most impact drivers have 1/4" hex chucks. These will take Irwin Super-bor Max bits. It's a dynamite combination for hole up to 1-1/8". You can even use extensions with ease.

For larger holes, Milwaukee has an impact driver with a 7/16" hex chuck. This is the cats' meow for driving the Forstener-style self-feed bits. No more wrestling matches with the drill!

Another tool to consider is available from Flex Tools, out of Germany. Essentially a Skilsaw with two blades, it cuts two parallel slots; remove the remaining wood, and you have a very, very nice slot. A lot easier than a router ... and the slot is just right for 1/2" EMT to be run just below the surface. (In Europe masonry walls are often slotted, and their version of "Smurf tube" is then run in the channel and covered with mortar).

 

[Ebow]

I have just finished roughing in a "log" house. Actually it was center cut timbers 7 1/2" thick by 14" wide. The recepticles are locted in the base moulding around the rooms with a center line (sideways) of barely 5". The trim carpenter will have to router out the back of the 1 x 8 base boards to fit the boxes, shallow 4x4 r/s with 1/2" mudrings.
Switches on the exterior walls (timber walls) were all scheduled out and carpenter routed them out (plastic boxes screwed in). A slot was cut up the inside of the door opening and the switch wires ran up to below the box and I drilled sideways just under and behind the boxes for my wire to enter the boxes. Nail plates cover the slots before the door bucks go in. all the wiring goes through the floor under the house and back to the panel or to a stud interior wall to go up to fixtures. Recepticle for the kitchen were routered up to just below the cabinet height and I drilled up to the box. Again router cuts were covered with long nail plates.
I did this whole job by myself due to lack of employees in the company and it was a royal pain not to mention very time consuming. What would normally have been a 15 ft switch leg turned into 30 ft or more. Think like christmas light recepticles in the eves of a house more.
There was one good thing about this owner/builder he put a slab under the house and raised up the house 32 inches so I could do the underneath work on a mechanics creeper.
The carpenter was also an old hand at building homes for this manufacturer and knew all the tricks to make my part easier thankfully.

Gene
______________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you!

 

[220/221]

I just did one for one of my guys. It was a pain.

The "logs" were cut flat on the interior side so that helped some. We had to cut al the openings for the jboxes before the logs were put in place. I used a Irwin sped bore bit, a sawsall and a chisel. The boxes were cut at the bottom of the logs so it wasn't really difficult, just time consuming locating each numbered log and figuring out where the box went.

They set two courses of logs and we marked and drilled down with a standard 1 1/8" auger and extension. For exterior wall switches, we drilled horizontally into the door opening and routered a channel up/down, then drilled some more.

On the exterior round part we drilled/chiseled and set weatherproof boxes about 1/2 way in.

Did I mention it was a pain?

All the ceiling stuff was difficult in this one too because the framing they used. Everything had to go in after the exposed 1x6 tounge/groove but before the sheeting/insulation.

Did I mention it was a pain?

It's kind of like working with masons. You will be standing around, waiting on them, and then you will have to run like hell to keep up.

 

[flatlander]

I've worke on some log home where the logs were set prior to me being on site. Some of the holes were drilled some not.
It was very time consuming.probably five times as long as a typical home.