Long Pull on Golf Course

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tom baker

tom baker

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I'm helping an electrician with a long wire pull at a Golf Course, where we can't leave the ditch open. Its 1000 ft of 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 Al XHHW XLP-2 condcutor. The plan is for one large pull box in the middle, with 3" PVC conduits, 2 90 degree sweeps, the conduit will have some deflection.
Is the gut feeling this is "pullable" (with a tugger) or should a second pull box be added?
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Sounds like it will work. Your pull will be about 500' with 1 sweep elbow. The NEC would permit 10-#4/0 XHHW in a 3" PVC conduit so I think that with 4 conductors your pull tension shouldn't be a problem. I'm assuming that you'll be splicing in the middle.
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Tom
Did a quick check using Polywater software and no problem for 500 ft other than a sore back.
Would you splice at 500 ft or loop through?

[ December 20, 2005, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: bob ]
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

I just did a quick run through and found @ 217 lbs of force will be needed for a straight 500 foot shot. If you include the 90 it will add to the force greatly in addition to the deflection. I agree you should be fine with a machine.

[ December 20, 2005, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: mikeames ]
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Tom, it is definitely pullable but, on a pull this long there are no "if's, and's, or but's" about it, metallic 90's on the tugger end are a must.

Roger

[ December 20, 2005, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Thanks all. I belive a spice will be made in the pull box.
I'll have to take a look at the Polywater Software!
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

I think that you could make that pull without the box. I didn't run any numbers, but I think it would be ok with the right equipment. You need a good at the start and the big green auto feeder would be a great help.
Don
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Tom,
Here is a suggestion:
If possable, leave the 90's off each end of the 1000' pull and eliminate the pull box and splices.

In other words, place the conduit in the trench except for the last 20' or so at each end and let it bow up and out of the trench. set up the chugger for a straight pull with plenty of lube. I have personally used this method twice for pulls of 600' and 750'. Worked great!
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave,
If possible, leave the 90's off each end of the 1000' pull and eliminate the pull box and splices.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting violating 300.18(A)?
Don
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Dave,
If possible, leave the 90's off each end of the 1000' pull and eliminate the pull box and splices.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting violating 300.18(A)?
Don
Click to expand...
Shhhhh....don't ask, don't tell.

In all actuality, our POCO has us do this all the time. Leave the conduit short, pull the wire, and they will do the rest. They get downright mean and ticked off if you pull into their handhole when it's hot. Man-o-live, I got a serious butt chewing the last time I did that. Then the guy actually asked me how I was able to undo the 5-sided bolt that holds the lid on. I smiled and told them it was a trade secret. :D
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave, are the 90's not part of the raceway?

Roger
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

This is a typical situation where the Code is good, until it gets in the way.
Not only will they have to set the 90s, how about the equipment/enclosures the 90s are connected to.
I have been there, so I can sympathize, but...
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave,
Sorry, but you get a "Doh"!
Just leave the 90's off for the pull. When done, install 90's over wire.
Click to expand...
If you don't have the equipment and expertise to do the job right, you should hire a qualified electrical contractor.
Don
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Don and Roger,
I don't believe 310.18 is intended to prevent electricians from pulling wire in a safe and less damaging way.
Besides, what does this mean?
Where required to facilitate the installation of utilization equipment, the raceway shall be permitted to be initially installed without a terminating connection at the equipment.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave,
I don't believe 310.18 is intended to prevent electricians from pulling wire in a safe and less damaging way.
Click to expand...
I don't believe that it is less damaging to the conductors to pull them into an unfinished raceway system.
Besides, what does this mean?
Where required to facilitate the installation of utilization equipment, the raceway shall be permitted to be initially installed without a terminating connection at the equipment.
Click to expand...
It means that you can pull conductors into a raceway system that is complete except for the termination to the utilization equipment. It does not mean that you can pull the conductors into an incomplete raceway system and then slide more raceway over the conductors.
Don
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave I was certainly surprised to see your position on this issue.

I always understood the exception to be for items like FMC 90 degree fittings that must be disassembled in order to install the conductors.
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

So let's say you have an underground pull that starts at the transformer vault with a back to back 90 and ends with a 90 up into a panelboard on the exterior of the building.

In this case would it be better to pull thru the 3 90's or better to leave the 90's off the transformer end and slide them over the wire after the pull?
 
Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Yes it would be better to pull through the 90's, not to mention it is a code requirement.

Dave, for an example, have you ever seen a 10' group of (4) 600 KCMIL conductors bent and twisted into a 90?

Most of the times this is done the results are gouged, and skinned conductors, as well as the race way not being seated in the fittings correctly.

Roger

[ December 21, 2005, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
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