Long Pull on Golf Course

[websparky]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Roger,

Let's say you have a complete raceway and at one end it has an LB that has a six inch stub thru the wall into the panel. The pull will be 200' and you will need to use a chugger. Would it be permissible to remove the LB and replace it with a box connector and bushing for the pulling of the wire?

 

[roger]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave, 300.18 says,

300.18 Raceway Installations
(A) Complete Runs Raceways, other than busways or exposed raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors. Where required to facilitate the installation of utilization equipment, the raceway shall be permitted to be initially installed without a terminating connection at the equipment . Prewired raceway assemblies shall be permitted only where specifically permitted in this Code for the applicable wiring method.

I don't see a condulet as fitting the definition of "a terminating connection at the equipment".

A condulet can be installed as a pull point anywhere in a raceway, whereas a "terminating connection" is just that, a termination at the utilization equipment as Iwire points out.

Roger

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
Dave,

Sorry, but you get a "Doh"!
Just leave the 90's off for the pull. When done, install 90's over wire.

If you don't have the equipment and expertise to do the job right, you should hire a qualified electrical contractor.
Don

That sounded mean.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Like the lines from A Few Good Men:

"You don't believe a word of their story; you think they should go to prison for the rest of their lives?"

"I believe every word of their story, and I think they should go to prison for the rest of their lives."

I agree 100% that the code prohibits installing the 90's after the pull, and I also agree 100% that even a "qualified electrical contractor" might find it easier (and maybe even easier on the conductors) to do the pull and then install the 90's.

The main concern would be if the entire run was RMC, and completing the conduit meant twisting the hell out of the conductors. Glued, compression, or set-screwed joints is a different story. Protecting the wires is of paramount importance.

How about a compromise: Pull the conductors to the point of the omitted 90, feed the pull-rope through the 90 and install it, then finish the pull. The destination 90 is the one that usually suffers the most stress, not the fed end.

"They mostly come out at night . . . mostly"

Who watches too many movies?!

 

[iwire]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave I don't know why you would ask a question like "What's better?"

That is not relevant, following the NEC is the only issue is it not?

If you feel a certain raceway installation will damage the conductors the answer is not to violate the NEC the answer would be to permanently change the design of the raceway.

To me the NEC is black and white on this issue and I strongly disagree that sliding the raceway on after is less likely to damage the conductors.

Use the right equipment with experienced workers and this pull across the golf course would be no problem.

I also agree with Don I would try to 'one shot' this. It is only 4/0 AL, it's not like we are talking 750 CU.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave,

Let's say you have a complete raceway and at one end it has an LB that has a six inch stub thru the wall into the panel. The pull will be 200' and you will need to use a chugger. Would it be permissible to remove the LB and replace it with a box connector and bushing for the pulling of the wire?

If you have the proper size LB and if its orientation is correct for the pulling direction, there would be no advantage in removing the LB.
Don

 

[busman]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

I don't think PVC glue squeezing out on the conductor insulation is a good idea.

Mark

[ December 22, 2005, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: busman ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Mark,

I don't think PVC glue squeezing out on the conductor insulation is a good idea.

That is one of the reasons the code says you can't do it that way.
Don

 

[websparky]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

That is one of the reasons the code says you can't do it that way.

Don, I can't seem to find that in the NEC. After all, Bob said it has to be black and white or forget it!

That sounded mean.

Nah, Don is a big boy, he can take it. Besides, I have had to take my share from Don, Bob and Roger plenty of times over the last 2 years! This has been a nice civil discussion.

OK, I must confess. I actually agree with Don, Bob and Roger.

This forum is a wonderful resource for inspectors and electricians alike. Where else do any of us have access to so many experienced tradesmen and knowledgeable code experts.

Thanks to all for your input and help.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Don, I can't seem to find that in the NEC. After all, Bob said it has to be black and white or forget it!

Dave read 300.18 again:

300.18 Raceway Installations
(A) Complete Runs Raceways, other than busways or exposed raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors

Background white,letters of the words are black.

[ December 22, 2005, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Dave,

Don, I can't seem to find that in the NEC. After all, Bob said it has to be black and white or forget it!

You can't find the reasons for any of the code rules in the code. The main reason that the code requires a complete conduit system before pulling the conductors is to prevent damage to the conductors. PVC solvent can damage the conductors.
Don

corrected typo (can to can't)

[ December 23, 2005, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]

 

[Awg-Dawg]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

300.18 Raceway Installations
(A) Complete Runs Raceways, other than busways or exposed raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors

What about 90s on Sealtite? Would that apply? I don't think I've ever pulled conductors after.

 

[iwire]

Re: Long Pull on Golf Course

Originally posted by Awg-Dawg:
What about 90s on Sealtite? Would that apply? I don't think I've ever pulled conductors after.

Dawg that was only part of 300.18(A)

300.18 Raceway Installations
(A) Complete Runs Raceways, other than busways or exposed raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors. Where required to facilitate the installation of utilization equipment, the raceway shall be permitted to be initially installed without a terminating connection at the equipment . Prewired raceway assemblies shall be permitted only where specifically permitted in this Code for the applicable wiring method.

The Sealtite 90 would be the terminating connection and allowed to be assembled after.