Looking For A Panel Cover - Please Help

[Papa John Yep It's Me]

Hello all. I recently had a contractor throw out the electric panel cover and door asm. So, now I have exposed breakers and wires!

Unfortunately this is for a condo is if quite small. It is a GTE Sylvania A20, no main breaker, 20"H x 11"W. I am desperately looking for a cover for this box. I know GTE sold to someone who sold to Cutler, but no one was able to help in the respect. So, instead of some parts guy, I am turning to the experts, the actual electricians!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Martin B]

Hello all. I recently had a contractor throw out the electric panel cover and door asm. So, now I have exposed breakers and wires!

Unfortunately this is for a condo is if quite small. It is a GTE Sylvania A20, no main breaker, 20"H x 11"W. I am desperately looking for a cover for this box. I know GTE sold to someone who sold to Cutler, but no one was able to help in the respect. So, instead of some parts guy, I am turning to the experts, the actual electricians!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I believe your "contractor" has some liability here. Start by calling them and demanding they fix the problem.

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[user 100]

Hello all. I recently had a contractor throw out the electric panel cover and door asm. So, now I have exposed breakers and wires!

Unfortunately this is for a condo is if quite small. It is a GTE Sylvania A20, no main breaker, 20"H x 11"W. I am desperately looking for a cover for this box. I know GTE sold to someone who sold to Cutler, but no one was able to help in the respect. So, instead of some parts guy, I am turning to the experts, the actual electricians!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

As mentioned in the 2nd post, looks like the contractor is responsible.

Ultimately, if a, or the, cover cannot be found, you may have to end up getting one made. A more extreme option would be just to replace that old panel- it isn't that big, wouldn't take that long, small panels are cheap etc.

 

[Ponchik]

Have a sheetmetal shop cut you a new piece.

 

[hbiss]

Wouldn't that void the panel listing? Besides, what sheet metal shop is going to make a cover with the exact cutouts and depressions (that hold the breakers down) economically if at all?

Nope, if the original cover can't be found I agree with the rest, the contractor pays and for a new panel.

-Hal

 

[ActionDave]

Wouldn't that void the panel listing? Besides, what sheet metal shop is going to make a cover with the exact cutouts and depressions (that hold the breakers down) economically if at all?

Nope, if the original cover can't be found I agree with the rest, the contractor pays and for a new panel.

-Hal

A good sheet metal shop can make a panel cover that will fit and work as good as the original. Listing and other blahh blahh blahh rules can be ironed out with the inspector if need be. When did we become a country that needs a stamp from a faceless authority to get anything done or do something that makes sense?

 

[norcal]

Contractor needs to pay for a panel change, stupidity does get expensive.

 

[ActionDave]

Oh the humanity!

Oh the humanity!

Be reasonable people. We don't know anything about what happened other than a panel cover has gone missing.

 

[user 100]

Wouldn't that void the panel listing?

-Hal

Not necessarily- see 312.10(B)- I interpret that to mean that as long as the replacement cover meets the thickness stated, there is no issue.

Got a feeling I'm gonna dodge the rocks here, but to elaborate on the point above, there is nothing in the NEC that says those covers have to be listed- TWIUI, the covers, cabinets etc are listed assemblies, and as long as the replacement cover met or exceeded the UL specs (proper thickness, no burrs, good fit), again, no issue.
.
Another way of looking at this: so at worst, you might have a slight listing issue. OTOH, is the panelboard within listing now? :happyno:

Drilling holes in cans isn't a problem, why is this? Of all the things we have to worry about w/ respect to liability, this is waaaayyyy down the list.

Contractor needs to pay for a panel change, stupidity does get expensive.

I mentioned that above only as a last resort. But really, looking at the pics- the thing is old, and you have what looks like a simple swap out- it would be tempting to me to do just that.

Be reasonable people. We don't know anything about what happened other than a panel cover has gone missing.

:thumbsup:

A good sheet metal shop can make a panel cover that will fit and work as good as the original. Listing and other blahh blahh blahh rules can be ironed out with the inspector if need be. When did we become a country that needs a stamp from a faceless authority to get anything done or do something that makes sense?

:thumbsup:

 

[JFletcher]

Welcome to the forum. Please DO NOT use a steel tape measure across an energized electrical panel ever again.

 

[user 100]

Welcome to the forum. Please DO NOT use a steel tape measure across an energized electrical panel ever again.

:thumbsup: Good Catch- something that none of the rest of us caught.

Great advice too.

Op: doing that is potentially dangerous and could lead to shock, electrocution, burns and/or blindness (that thin tape could even get blown in half if a good enough fault opens up thru it), are all risks with that.

 

[kwired]

For those that think the contractor should fix the problem - what do you suggest OP does to assure that the contractor actually does fix the problem?

Damages here are not really high enough to even be worthwhile pursuing in small claims court.

 

[Martin B]

For those that think the contractor should fix the problem - what do you suggest OP does to assure that the contractor actually does fix the problem?

Damages here are not really high enough to even be worthwhile pursuing in small claims court.

I would like to know if the O.P. asked the contractor to fix the problem first.

After that the O.P. could contact the licensing authority. After that, if the O.P. was diligent when hireing a contractor they should have a copy of the contractor's liability insurance document. They could contact the insurance company. If all that doesn't work than maybe your right. Although I think you could get a lawyer to write a letter for $100 which would be cheaper thay paying a new electrician to replace the panel or even having a new cover made.

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[kwired]

I would like to know if the O.P. asked the contractor to fix the problem first.

After that the O.P. could contact the licensing authority. After that, if the O.P. was diligent when hireing a contractor they should have a copy of the contractor's liability insurance document. They could contact the insurance company. If all that doesn't work than maybe your right. Although I think you could get a lawyer to write a letter for $100 which would be cheaper thay paying a new electrician to replace the panel or even having a new cover made.

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Having a lawyer write a letter is nothing more then a scare tactic that may or may not work.

Even a judgement from small claims court is no guarantee they will fix it, pay a claim, etc. it is just one more tool to use to try to get it done.

 

[growler]

A more extreme option would be just to replace that old panel- it isn't that big, wouldn't take that long, small panels are cheap etc.

Have a sheetmetal shop cut you a new piece.

It's true that a sheet metal shop can make anything that you can come up with a set of drawings for.

By the time they send someone out to get measurements and figure out how to make this cover it would be cheaper just to get the panel and breakers replaced.

It's better that electricians make money than a sheet metal shop. You end up with a new panel, new breakers and tight connections.

I have probaby thrown out several covers over the years that would fit that panel but who was going to pay to store and deal with old panel covers until the are needed.

 

[Papa John Yep It's Me]

Thank you all for your replies. Yes, We have contacted the contractor. Of course he will not admit to anything. My attorney has tried as well but unless we had evidence that it was actually him and not another contractor working on the property at the time, we can't prove who actually threw it out, taken it, etc. Yes, the electrician removed it to install a couple breakers but that's as much as we can prove. The question my attorney had for him was, if the panel cover was missing, why did you not advise the homeowner (landlord. It's a rental property). He has now referred us to his attorney. So, as you can see, this is not going anywhere and will be a waste of money and time.

I found that GTE Sylvania sold this line of Breakers and panels, etc to Cooper. Cooper sold to Cutler-Hammer. Cutler is owned by Eaton Corp. Eaton kept the industrial end of the products and is marketing the residential end as Cutler. I contacted both Eaton and Cutler in hope someone could help. No luck. One guy i talked to at Eaton did say that I most likely won't find a panel cover. The 20"x11" boxes were made for smaller applications such as apts/condos. He made a good point when he said people don't modify, add or replace panels in apts. There is not reason to.

I also talk with a city building inspector. Anonymously, of course. He said the panel cover has to be UL as well as the box. So, fabricating one would not work in the burbs of Chicago. I looked at the box in a couple of the complex buildings that control the common lights for the building and sure enough, the cover does have the UL mark on it. Of course, that box and cover would have to be smaller

So that's where I am at today. Same as I was in the beginning!

 

[Papa John Yep It's Me]

:thumbsup: Good Catch- something that none of the rest of us caught.

Great advice too.

Op: doing that is potentially dangerous and could lead to shock, electrocution, burns and/or blindness (that thin tape could even get blown in half if a good enough fault opens up thru it), are all risks with that.

Your right. But, I was more careful than it seems. Made sure it crossed the plastic breakers and was actually away from the terminals.

 

[Papa John Yep It's Me]

Be reasonable people. We don't know anything about what happened other than a panel cover has gone missing.

Hi Dave. I don't understand what you mean. The only issue is the panel cover was removed during a small cosmetic remodel with the addition of a some can lights and 2 breakers to accomplish the addition of the can lights. Unfortunately, the panel box is behind a framed wooden door behind a laundry room door. I have since removed the wood frame and wood door as I am sure that is not code. However, because of the door and behind the laundry room door, we did not see it until after the contractors were gone. So, this has been a situation of chasing the contractors around and trying to fins the panel. Of course, no one admits to it.

 

[Papa John Yep It's Me]

Having a lawyer write a letter is nothing more then a scare tactic that may or may not work.

Even a judgement from small claims court is no guarantee they will fix it, pay a claim, etc. it is just one more tool to use to try to get it done.

Yes, we do have the cert of insurance and copy of license. The association requires this for anyone who works on the complex. Without going into a very long story, the bottom line was basically, sorry this is between you and the electrician. I also can't prove it was actually him who removed/lost/threw out, etc the cover. There were quite a few people in and out during the 10 days. So, I am being very careful with him. My atty did say he was responsible for the cover but that would be a very expensive argument in court. I could have the breaker box replaced cheaper! And you are right, we did try a very brief scare tactic via letter but all that did was cause him to inform us to contact his attorney for any future issues. I decided to back off and take the loss and hope for the best. I have quite a few people keeping their eyes open just in case in is found in a bone yard which is highly unlikely.

 

[Papa John Yep It's Me]

I would like to know if the O.P. asked the contractor to fix the problem first.

After that the O.P. could contact the licensing authority. After that, if the O.P. was diligent when hireing a contractor they should have a copy of the contractor's liability insurance document. They could contact the insurance company. If all that doesn't work than maybe your right. Although I think you could get a lawyer to write a letter for $100 which would be cheaper thay paying a new electrician to replace the panel or even having a new cover made.

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Hi Martin. Yes I did, multiple times. I posted an update below. Thanks.