Looking For A Panel Cover - Please Help

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Papa John Yep It's Me said:
Hi Dave. I don't understand what you mean. The only issue is the panel cover was removed during a small cosmetic remodel with the addition of a some can lights and 2 breakers to accomplish the addition of the can lights. Unfortunately, the panel box is behind a framed wooden door behind a laundry room door. I have since removed the wood frame and wood door as I am sure that is not code. However, because of the door and behind the laundry room door, we did not see it until after the contractors were gone. So, this has been a situation of chasing the contractors around and trying to fins the panel. Of course, no one admits to it.
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ActionDaves point was that a simple cover missing should not necessitate replacing the entire panel. The deal with panels is that the cover and cabinet are listed assemblies iirc. Be interesting to find out from this inspector about what he does if an exception has to be made- A replacement cover DOES NOT automatically void any listing if made to the appropriate specs per UL for that panel.

OTOH, if you really want a cover, you/your landlord may end up just having to get the panel replaced- on the flip side, at least you will have a new panel/new breakers.
 
Papa John Yep It's Me said:
Hi Dave. I don't understand what you mean. The only issue is the panel cover was removed during a small cosmetic remodel with the addition of a some can lights and 2 breakers to accomplish the addition of the can lights. Unfortunately, the panel box is behind a framed wooden door behind a laundry room door. I have since removed the wood frame and wood door as I am sure that is not code. However, because of the door and behind the laundry room door, we did not see it until after the contractors were gone. So, this has been a situation of chasing the contractors around and trying to fins the panel. Of course, no one admits to it.
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I was reacting to the overall tone of some of the posts. It's a missing panel cover not a defcon level five emergency.
 
ActionDave said:
I was reacting to the overall tone of some of the posts. It's a missing panel cover not a defcon level five emergency.
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No, your right it's not. However, to me it is going to be a cost of around $1500 (so far 3 quotes avg 1500) because of something I believe should have never happened. I was only looking for advise to see if anyone could lead me to a source for a cover. I didn't know if electricians kept a bone yard of old parts or knew of someone who did. I am not an electrician so this is all foreign to me. I appreciate all of your replies guys! I think I am going to just cut my loss and have it replaced.
 
Papa John Yep It's Me said:
No, your right it's not. However, to me it is going to be a cost of around $1500 (so far 3 quotes avg 1500) because of something I believe should have never happened. I was only looking for advise to see if anyone could lead me to a source for a cover. I didn't know if electricians kept a bone yard of old parts or knew of someone who did. I am not an electrician so this is all foreign to me. I appreciate all of your replies guys! I think I am going to just cut my loss and have it replaced.
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The last thing I can think of to get hold of a cover is ebay- they do from time to time have a lot of those old covers and panels- you just might find it.
 
Papa John Yep It's Me said:
No, your right it's not. However, to me it is going to be a cost of around $1500 (so far 3 quotes avg 1500) because of something I believe should have never happened. I was only looking for advise to see if anyone could lead me to a source for a cover. I didn't know if electricians kept a bone yard of old parts or knew of someone who did. I am not an electrician so this is all foreign to me. I appreciate all of your replies guys! I think I am going to just cut my loss and have it replaced.
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Given the tone of your posts I agree with you, this is something that should not have happened, but it is something that happens now and again. There are plenty of old electricians that keep old junk around but you have to did deep to find one of them. The place I work for is a prime example, second generation electrician, been in the same location since the 1960s, and a lot of spare parts. No website though. The only way you know some place like ours exists is to know my boss or know someone who knows him.
 
user 100 said:
. The deal with panels is that the cover and cabinet are listed assemblies iirc.
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They may be listed, but does NEC require them to be listed? Remember that Cabinets and panelboards are covered by separate sections in the NEC. "load centers" are nothing more then a packaged deal of a panelboard already installed in a cabinet.

Only thing I find in art 312 about listing requirements is that non metallic cabinets need to be listed.

ActionDave said:
I was reacting to the overall tone of some of the posts. It's a missing panel cover not a defcon level five emergency.
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yep.
 
kwired said:
They may be listed, but does NEC require them to be listed? Remember that Cabinets and panelboards are covered by separate sections in the NEC. "load centers" are nothing more then a packaged deal of a panelboard already installed in a cabinet.
.
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Thats exactly it and precisely my point about a replacement cover- there is nothing in 312 that says much of anything about listing of cabinets- only that they must meet certain physical properties like thickness.

We of course have the old general standby of 110.3(B).....,but not seeing how that would be violated if the cover met the UL specs (like for like). Really imo the UL specs aren't so much a listing in this case, but more of an approval- there is a chasm there- no rule is being violated if something is being duplicated to the same standard/design already approved by UL.

UL standards for a cabinet assembly aren't something magical that must never be forsaken- they are just a stamp that hits the metal b4 it leaves the factory, only indicating it was in compliance at that point in time.

As I said earlier, still wondering what the ops inspector would do if he had to make an exception- you know they are not replacing industrial or commercial grade stuff worth 10's of thousands of dollars b/c of some stupid missing cover.:happyno:
 
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Papa John Yep It's Me said:
Hello all. I recently had a contractor throw out the electric panel cover and door asm. So, now I have exposed breakers and wires!

Unfortunately this is for a condo is if quite small. It is a GTE Sylvania A20, no main breaker, 20"H x 11"W. I am desperately looking for a cover for this box. I know GTE sold to someone who sold to Cutler, but no one was able to help in the respect. So, instead of some parts guy, I am turning to the experts, the actual electricians!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Have you tried contacting used electrical supply companies to see what they have?
 
GTE/Sylvania became Challenger, and that part of Challenger ("interchangeable" breakers as they were called at the time) was eventually bought by Cutler Hammer. They likely have a cover that will fit, their "BR" line of breakers will have the same face plate cutouts, which is the critical dimension. The mounting holes may or may not line up, just drill the covers to facilitate the box hole locations.

Forget worrying about UL listing now, it's pointless unless an inspector shows up, at which point you will have to explain all the different brands of breakers in there anyway.
 
Jraef said:
They likely have a cover that will fit, their "BR" line of breakers will have the same face plate cutouts, which is the critical dimension. The mounting holes may or may not line up, just drill the covers to facilitate the box hole locations.
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This is a very good idea. Just find a panel cover that has 20 breaker slots (10x2) that is bigger than the panel and drill new holes to fasten it to the can. You could even trim it down to a reasonable size easily. If you want it to look really nice, instead of using your sawzall, a sheet metal shop could shear off a bit on each side and round the corners easily and quickly.

Here's one you might be able to use:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Ty...or-Load-Center-with-Door-BR2020L125/300823813
You can just buy the entire panel for $45.00. probably cheaper than ordering a cover.

The inspector probably wouldn't even notice the difference.
 
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Coppersmith said:
This is a very good idea. Just find a panel cover that has 20 breaker slots (10x2) that is bigger than the panel and drill new holes to fasten it to the can. You could even trim it down to a reasonable size easily. If you want it to look really nice, instead of using your sawzall, a sheet metal shop could shear off a bit on each side and round the corners easily and quickly.

Here's one you might be able to use:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-Ty...or-Load-Center-with-Door-BR2020L125/300823813
You can just buy the entire panel for $45.00. probably cheaper than ordering a cover.

The inspector probably wouldn't even notice the difference.
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Your right. I did think about that but was wondering. My breakers are off center. They are approx 1/2" off center to the right. Is this normal to most panels or will that be a problem with mine? Thank you.
 
Papa John Yep It's Me said:
Your right. I did think about that but was wondering. My breakers are off center. They are approx 1/2" off center to the right. Is this normal to most panels or will that be a problem with mine? Thank you.
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That's not normal, it smacks of someone in the past having gutted the original panel and installed a different interior. Badly at that...

GTE / Sylvania sold a lot of different products over the years, one of them being a notoriously bad line of breakers and panels called "Zinsco" (all you Zinsco lovers, back off.) Because of it's bad reputation, a lot of people took to ripping and replacing them whenever they came across them. Normally, one would rip and replace the entire panel, box, interior, cover etc. But in your case that box is embedded in a wood wall and likely whomever did this didn't want to mess with modifying the wood. So my guess is they saw Zinsco, yanked out the interior and re-installed something else in its box that used "interchangeable" breakers, then over time you ended up with multiple brands in there. No telling what the original interior was now.

So does it matter? Not really, other than maybe making the customization of a cover a little more tricky. But be forewarned; if this is a project that will be inspected, you may not get away with it. If not, but some day in the future you WANT to do another project that involves an inspection, that's when you may get caught. The RIGHT thing to do is actually to rip and replace it with an entirely new panel with properly listed breakers in it, installed correctly in that wood wall.
 
Papa John Yep It's Me said:
Your right. I did think about that but was wondering. My breakers are off center. They are approx 1/2" off center to the right. Is this normal to most panels or will that be a problem with mine? Thank you.
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Tape measure in picture 3 in OP seems to indicate they are very near centered.

That said modern loadcenters are 14.5" wide (they fit between 16" OC studs) so you have an extra 1.75" of cover on each side of your cabinet if centered, slightly more for a cover intentionally oversized for covering a flush mounted cabinet.
 
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