Looking for opinions

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sparky 134

Senior Member
Location
Joliet, IL
Do you have a minimum charge for returning to a job to make changes or perform additional work ?

Here is the situation: I did a job for a GC and the inspector requested additional work. I have a $200.00 minimum charge for a service call. The GC has a problem with this saying he can't justify the HUGE charge for having someone come back to the job to do the additional work even though he is passing this cost onto the customer. On this particular job the inspector made two inspections and requested additional work both times which required me to return to the job twice. The GC thinks I should only charge my normal price per opening and maybe 35.00 or 40.00 for a trip charge.

I explained that if I only charged for the openings plus $40.00 I would lose money. He says I would recoup it on future work. If I had a dollar for everytime I heard, "Give me a cheap price on this job and I will have TONS of work for you in the future" I would be rich.

I think otherwise and I'm looking for opinions from other contractors.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

How can the inspector request additional work?

If we fail an inspection we will be at the job for free.

If we are providing additional work for the GC than it will be T&M. We only charge the 4 hr min for emergency calls. For scheduled jobs there is no 'set' minimum.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

what did the inspector request?
is it something that you should of done on the rough?
if its not,i would charge the gc.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

On the first inspection the AHJ requested a receptacle be installed in the mechanical room and a light installed under the stairs for the sump pump.

On the second inspection the AHJ requested three receptacles be installed in an area that was deemed to be unfinished storage on the print but the carpenter studded the walls therefore the AHJ said the receptacles were required.

Now, some have said that these should have been included originally. In the past I have made suggestions to the GC about add'l work I think the AHJ would require and was told to just bid the drawing.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

I'm leaning more towards doing it t&m. It really isn't a service call. You also could give a set price for the work that needs to be done. The price per opening should be reserved for use only on a complete job where you will be setup to do all the work at one period of time. Coming in for small additional jobs on a per opening basis is a losing proposition.
All that said if this gc is a regular customer that you are happy doing work for I would think about wether or not you want to push for the 200 bucks.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if the receptacle in the mechanical room and the light for the sump pump are code requirements, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are. As for the room that went from unfinished on the drawing to finished in real life, that's clearly on the GC or the carpenter. It doesn't sound to me like the inspector is being unreasonable, assuming everything is indeed required by code.

Since you did tell the GC in advance that you expected that additional stuff would be probably required, and he said to just bid the drawing (which then changed after the carpenter's work), you should indeed be paid for the extra work.

But I have a hard time agreeing with your $200 minimum for a service call. Unlike most service calls, you know in advance exactly what the work will be. I understand that there's the hassle factor of getting called out for a small job, so I suggest that you charge your normal rate (plus normal trip charge), but you schedule it for a time that is convenient for you. If the GC wants emergency service, then by all means charge accordingly, but otherwise, I'd charge normal rates.

If this is a GC you want to work with again, you might not get the chance if he feels you are squeezing him unnecessarily.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

As far as doing the work T&M, if the job only takes one hour would you only bill for the hour ?

Just billing for actual T&M I would lose money by doing the work. The GC is the type that likes to squeeze guys on their prices whenever he can. For example, he told me to exclude license & permit from my price because the other bidder did not include it. When I was awarded the job and sent an invoice for the license & permit he refused to pay saying the costs should be paid by me, not him, even though the contract spells out these costs are not included. Trying to maintain a working relationship with him I did not ask for the invoice for the license & permit to be paid before I secured them. Now, I am out the fees.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

Originally posted by sparky 134:
As far as doing the work T&M, if the job only takes one hour would you only bill for the hour ?
Click to expand...
Heck no, we would bill for the hours the job took us. That includes travel time etc.

I can not think of a time where I could put a single hour down on a T&M slip for any size job.

We are not a charity but IMO (you did ask for opinions) this is not a service call it is scheduled work done for T&M or as has been suggested give them a quote that is good for you and they can take it or leave it. Of course taking into account future work from the GC.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

sparky, I think you dont understand T&M pricing. The only way to loose money T&M is if there is a very long drive to the site, in which case i charge travel time, or you dont know how to add.

With T&M you dont charge your time and material cost, you charge your time and material mark up.
For good customers I use about actual cost of running the business per man hour (averaged over a year to include incidental time) times 2, and for material I charge actual material cost times 1.25.

For service call work a higher multiplier is used because you cant include your incidnetal time. Customers get angery when you try to tell them that they are paying for time that you were not actually in there house.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

I guess you have to ask yourself if this GC is worth keeping a relationship with. How badly do you need the work?

You said this guy is someone who likes to squeeze his subs. That alone would make me not want to work with him. If you did want to keep working with him, now you know to bid higher to account for the extras he expects you to eat.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

Originally posted by sparky 134:
The GC is the type that likes to squeeze guys on their prices whenever he can.
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I dont know what the economy is like in your area, but I have one or two customers who I always bid high for. Like this guy, they like to squeeze ya. If i get the job, I can smile when they are being PITAs. If I dont get the job, I loose no sleep because I have work.

edit to add... bump, jeff you and I are thinking on the same line. :)

[ December 17, 2005, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: jbwhite ]
 
Re: Looking for opinions

sounds to me your figuring your jobs too tight. have you ever done a job where everything falls into place and you know half way through the job that you are gonna make a very good profit? you approach the job a little different -- you have some "fat" in the job --- you let some small things slide..... i stopped working for general contractors many years ago!! and when i did -- they would call me for jobs and i would tell them
"don't work for gc's anymore" --- you know what they asked me??? "how are you gonna find work?" or "how are you gonna survive?" for the last fifteen years i was in business i loved my job! my customers were happy, they payed their bills, i provided them outstanding service at honest reasonable prices. it was a wonderful run!!! i never ran out of work. and for fifteen years i worked with that "easy" feeling knowing i was making good money --- get away from customers that treat you without respect --- that only tells you this gc doesn't know a good price from a bad one ---he'll cry about every job. don't worry, you'll fill his spot with another and at the same time you have just given your problem gc to your competition.................
 
Re: Looking for opinions

Sounds pretty simple. The work failed (twice). You need to go back and bring it to code and charge what you would have charged if you did it while you were there doing the original work.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

Last september I bid a job for a national controls general contractor. In the following weeks I was telephoned and emailed several times with hint that I was too high, and would I recalculate my work. I told them that I gave a price as I saw the work needed.

They told me that they were going to compair prices.

Two weeks ago I got a call asking how soon I could start. Some companies have people paid to try to beat you down, so that they can get a bigger chunk of the pie.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

The work failed twice because the inspector failed to make all of his requests the first time he was there. I think it's very unprofessional for the inspector to perform an inspection, come back for a re-inspection and point out add'l work he wants.

The GC prepared the drawings and told me to just bid the drawings as shown. He has already sold the job to the customer and for him to approach the customer with extras that should have been included originally makes him look bad.

The work that was requested during the second inspection was for an area that was labeled 'Unfinished Storage' on the drawings thus not requiring receptacles. It is not my responsibility that the carpenter decided to stud the area thus necessitating the receptacles.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

sparky, i agree that you should be paid for what you did. I just believe, and this is a business decisioin, not a right or wrong situation, that you should charge T&M for the extras, not by the hole. by the hole is usually a bargain price for when you are going to be on a job several days and all the work is done in at the proper phase of the job.

when you go back, you charge the higher T&M rate for your inconvience. As you said, you told the GC that his plans would not fly. So, when they dont fly, get paid.

Since this is a regular customer, you dont stick him with the even higher service call rate.

edit to add. another aproach mentioned in this thread, is to treat this as a bid extra. The GC can accept your bid and sign the extra, or hire someone else.

[ December 17, 2005, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: jbwhite ]
 
Re: Looking for opinions

Originally posted by sparky 134:
The work that was requested during the second inspection was for an area that was labeled 'Unfinished Storage' on the drawings thus not requiring receptacles. It is not my responsibility that the carpenter decided to stud the area thus necessitating the receptacles.
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Where would I find the section that requires an unfinshed area to be wired as if it were to be finished? Studded or not
 
Re: Looking for opinions

Sparky I have to side with your GC. It appears from your explanation you failed an inspection twice. The second one was not your fault, so it is billable.
I would finish this job with this GC, get paid and either bid his jobs twice as high as what you are now, or find someone else to work for. He's got you pegged for a sucker. He already stuck you with a permit fee, and now you might get stuck with some extras for free!
Your choice--make money or lose it working for this guy.
 
Re: Looking for opinions

A lot depends on how your contract reads.Most want one thats says will comply with nec.In that case your stuck with the first rejection.No need to loose the GC just bid high enough to allow for extra stuff.
 
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