Looped Power Feed?

[mbrooke]

Oh, I misunderstood, thanks for the clarification. :ashamed1:

Roger

Its ok I just got banned from a UK electrical forum standing up for our wiring practices and constitutional rights. Apparently I live in a 3rd world country so I can not say those things on a foreign forums. Should have known better, silly me :ashamed:

 

[Tony S]

Don't challenge him to actually think Iwire, it'll get messy........

~RJ~

Perhaps I should post more information to explain my initial reply. That is if you really want me to.

 

[mbrooke]

Perhaps I should post more information to explain my initial reply. That is if you really want me to.

I want you too. Like I said, we are willing to learn. And the beauty about this forum is that you will never be banned for speaking your mind :thumbsup:

 

[Tony S]

Its ok I just got banned from a UK electrical forum standing up for our wiring practices and constitutional rights. Apparently I live in a 3rd world country so I can not say those things on a foreign forums. Should have known better, silly me :ashamed:

NFPA-NEC practices didn’t enter in the decision to ban you. Persistent argument was your downfall.

I will add you’ve consistently derided your own wiring methods while milking information from the UK. IE CCC of cables in various environments. Information you have plagiarised elsewhere.

 

[romex jockey]

Perhaps I should post more information to explain my initial reply. That is if you really want me to.

You're free to explain your ramblings here , or not 'ol chap....

That you're a foreigner with different views simply places you in a position of validating them

Welcome to an American forum, where such freedom prevails mate

~RJ~

 

[romex jockey]

NFPA-NEC practices didn’t enter in the decision to ban you. Persistent argument was your downfall.

I will add you’ve consistently derided your own wiring methods while milking information from the UK. IE CCC of cables in various environments. Information you have plagiarised elsewhere.

Again

Welcome to MH's forum , mainly NEC

But if you've some BS (Brit Standard) you wish to introduce against the NEC , please fire away

~RJ~

 

[SceneryDriver]

Wouldn't current, not voltage be the safety issue?

Many LV lighting power supplies do put out 25 amps.

Many landscape power supplies do have high capacities, but how would safety be increased by having one run of cable instead of a ring? Fusing or other circuit protection is the best way to handle that issue, I think.

We run into this quite often with light boxes. The boxes can be quite large, and some densely populated units can draw upward of 40A at 24V. We section the boxes and fuse, usually with 8A class CC fuses. That's what the tape manufacturer has recommended to us; anything higher risks the traces on the LED tape becoming fusible links. :blink:


SceneryDriver

 

[JFletcher]

How 'bout dem Panthers!

Sooo... the consensus here is ring circuits are a violation (tho probably ok for LV despite it) of the NEC for parallel conductors, they are used mostly in the UK, which is a failed superpower because their breaker panels are too small, everyone still loves AFCI breakers, and receptacles should always be installed ground pin down.

Phew, tough work throwing all of that gasoline (petrol) on the fire!

kwired and SceneryDriver, I could see where a ring circuit here would throw electricians for a loop, so to speak. Even if there were no safety problems, I doubt a GFCI receptacle would work if both Line and Load side were essentially wired to line side. and I could see where mismarked cables, panels changes. or wiring failures might create a whole slew of other potential problems with a ring circuit

infinity's idea of cutting the circuit mid-point is maybe the best code compliant idea thus far.

and iwire; the driver is 300W, so it is capable of putting out 25A@12V. I know the amperage is what kills but I think I'd rather put my hand across a 12V 1000A battery than a 50A 240V range receptacle with the cover off.

 

[SceneryDriver]

I can't speak for where you are but around here, motion picture production is exempt from permitting & inspections. You need a permit to build a studio and for all the related offices, bathrooms, etc. but for anything on a set, they're exempt, unless anything changed in the past few years.

NYC tends to be a little more uptight, especially with permanently installed TV studio set pieces. While our installs is almost never inspected by the inspector, clients' tech specs will often have requirements that reference portions of the NEC that we must follow. Our long term clients know the quality of our work and we work with them to ensure a safe installation that meets their internal specs. Permits and inspections aside, we strive to keep safety first. Setting fire to the set of a major national morning TV show while on-air is bad for business.



SceneryDriver

 

[ActionDave]

... the driver is 300W, so it is capable of putting out 25A@12V. I know the amperage is what kills but I think I'd rather put my hand across a 12V 1000A battery than a 50A 240V range receptacle with the cover off.

It's not the amperage in the circuit that kills you, it's the amperage through you that kills you and it takes enough voltage to get it past your skin and to your heart. 12V won't get it done.

 

[Tony S]

I am still waiting for an apology about being called a 3 world country :rant::

You’ll wait a very long time.

If we were to put a bit of context to the comment. You Mr Brooke were lamenting the lack of testing in the US were you not?

The reference to “Septic” came from a former G/F of mine from the Bronx.


Just so the members on MH know who they have in there midst

 

[mgookin]

NYC tends to be a little more uptight, especially with permanently installed TV studio set pieces. While our installs is almost never inspected by the inspector, clients' tech specs will often have requirements that reference portions of the NEC that we must follow. Our long term clients know the quality of our work and we work with them to ensure a safe installation that meets their internal specs. Permits and inspections aside, we strive to keep safety first. Setting fire to the set of a major national morning TV show while on-air is bad for business.



SceneryDriver

I did not know you are in NYC. For some reason I thought you were out west.

 

[Tony S]

The URL is missing as I agreed with infinity when I joined I would not post it here.

 

[mbrooke]

NFPA-NEC practices didn’t enter in the decision to ban you. Persistent argument was your downfall.

Yes, after your members kept to insulting me and this country in nearly every post over a 6 month period. Yet somehow when I try to stand up for myself or this country its considered offensive on the UK side.

I will add you’ve consistently derided your own wiring methods while milking information from the UK. IE CCC of cables in various environments. Information you have plagiarised elsewhere.

In some places yes, Ive pointed out ways they could be improved. Getting rid of AFCIs is one of them. However that does not excuse the comments made by other members.

BTW, I dont have to worry about plagiarizing or Copy right. I can post and quote the NEC freely because the law requires its disclosure unlike BS7671 which while applicable to nearly every installation in the UK can not be posted or quoted from directly because its considered copy right in the UK. Its tragic life safety material enforced by law can not be disclosed yet you have the nerve to say we are backwards based on local amendments and that very legal disclosure.

 

[mbrooke]

You’ll wait a very long time.

I know, because you think Americans are beneath you unworthy of respect.

If we were to put a bit of context to the comment. You Mr Brooke were lamenting the lack of testing in the US were you not?

Lack of testing does not make the US a third world country! Look at the qualifications for such, testing is not one of them. Yes I said testing is a good idea and nobody can deny that. I think testing is good protocol. However its just one example how how everything I said turned into a back handed insult against me or the US.

The reference to “Septic” came from a former G/F of mine from the Bronx

.

Either way it was used in a derogatory manner.

Just so the members on MH know who they have in there midst

Why dont you show the rest of the message, assuming you did not edit anything out first to paint me as the bad guy. I bent over backwards for you, always took your side no matter what, put up insults from you and your members, tried to educate them as much as possible about the NEC, ect, ect, ect yet the moment I tried to defend myself and this country in a civil manner you ban me. I know you abhor something about the US as it appears all UK members do, but do not take that out on me. I have no control over this country or its people, I just live here. I am a US citizen with constitutional and civil liberties, the greatest, most prosperous, most beautiful, most profound rights ever given to man. If you want to enjoy those rights you are more then welcome to move here. If you think the UK is better, then you are free to live there. But do not under any circumstance take that out on me. I was just on your forum to make new friends and peruse new knowledge, nothing more. Its sad your deep seeded hate toward the greatest country on earth turned sour.

 

[mbrooke]

The URL is missing as I agreed with infinity when I joined I would not post it here.

And, for the record, what got Steve Banned. All because he said the US should stay out of the middle east and you attack him. He has said the same everywhere and has never been met with such venomous contempt. What was so flippant about it? Nothing, other then the fact he is a US citizen and called you out over the constant slander.

 

[iwire]

and iwire; the driver is 300W, so it is capable of putting out 25A@12V. I know the amperage is what kills but I think I'd rather put my hand across a 12V 1000A battery than a 50A 240V range receptacle with the cover off.

My thoughts had nothing to do with shock hazard.

25 amps is more than enough current to be a fire hazard.

But I was not saying your ideas where a fire hazard.

Many landscape power supplies do have high capacities, but how would safety be increased by having one run of cable instead of a ring?

I never said it one run of cable would increase safety.

Your post seemed to perpetuate the myth that low voltage means safe when that is not the case.

As far as what is done in the entertainment industry .... my experiences tell me not to use that as a yard stick of NEC compliance or safety.

 

[ActionDave]

Wow! We have some electrical discussion mashed up with an International Internet Soap Opera.

Personally I am an American through and through, but I have a strong affection for English Ales, I would be in favour of changing the term Grounding to Earthing, ring circuits are cool with me, my kids love to watch Dr. Who .....oooooh this is not sounding good at all.

I watched Bennie Hill when I was a kid......that explains it, I hope.

 

[iwire]

:lol::lol:

It was on UHF when I was a kid and I would have to keep fixing the tuning so I would not miss the good parts.

 

[mgookin]

I never understood British humor and I still don't. I think I saw one funny skit some years back but I don't remember what it was. Something about a hardware store and a girl...

But when I was a teenager I had a smoking hot English girlfriend. For that I'll always have considerable respect for our across the pond neighbors. I remember her asking one day if I take "vittamins" and I asked her 3 times to say it over, then asked her to spell it "v i t a m i n s"! I cracked up and she cried. Good golly she was hot!