Loopy wiring?

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petersonra said:
The wording of the "securing and supporting" rule would appear to prohibit one from running through studs horizontally since no staple or strap or similar device is used. But, I don't know of anyone that claims running an NM cable horizontally through studs requires any special securing or supporting regardless of the run length.
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334.30(A) tells us that the cable within a bored hole is considered supported and secured.

334.30(A) Horizontal Runs Through Holes and Notches. In
other than vertical runs, cables installed in accordance with
300.4 shall be considered to be supported and secured
where such support does not exceed 1.4-m (4 1 ? 2 -ft) intervals
and the nonmetallic-sheathed cable is securely fastened in
place by an approved means within 300 mm (12 in.) of
each box, cabinet, conduit body, or other nonmetallic-
sheathed cable termination.
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infinity said:
334.30(A) tells us that the cable within a bored hole is considered supported and secured.
Click to expand...



334.30(A) Horizontal Runs Through Holes and Notches. In
other than vertical runs, cables installed in accordance with
300.4 shall be considered to be supported and secured
where such support does not exceed 1.4-m (4 1 ? 2 -ft) intervals
and the nonmetallic-sheathed cable is securely fastened in
place by an approved means within 300 mm (12 in.) of
each box, cabinet, conduit body, or other nonmetallic-
sheathed cable termination.



But still needs additional approved means within 12 inches of the box, 8 inches within certain 1 gang boxes with no clamp including the one pictured in OP, I assume anyway, though it doesn't mention the 8 inch situation in the above quoted section.


I am not aware of any section that states you must use a particular "staple, strap or other item made for the purpose" or that such item even needs to be listed for the purpose, yet there are inspectors out there that go a little too far with requiring such items to be listed, or for that matter using such items for purposes they are not listed for.

I used to use deep throat plastic staples designed and listed for 2 stacked 2 wire NM cables for securing MC cable - works great is difficult for the new guy to "over drive" and damage the cable. Couple years ago inspector said those are not listed for that use, I asked where in the code does it say the securing means needs to be listed - period. So now I use non listed steel NM staples for securing MC cable, and yes the new guy (when there is one) isn't as careful as I am and drives them in too far and damages cable sheath - but they are not used against any listing as there is none:slaphead::slaphead::slaphead:
 
kwired said:
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I used to use deep throat plastic staples designed and listed for 2 stacked 2 wire NM cables for securing MC cable - works great is difficult for the new guy to "over drive" and damage the cable. Couple years ago inspector said those are not listed for that use, I asked where in the code does it say the securing means needs to be listed - period. So now I use non listed steel NM staples for securing MC cable, and yes the new guy (when there is one) isn't as careful as I am and drives them in too far and damages cable sheath - but they are not used against any listing as there is none:slaphead::slaphead::slaphead:
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Even after years of driving staples, I would overdrive them all too often. A few years ago I started using an inexpensive two sided plastic hammer from Sears (I don't know why it's not called a mallet...). I haven't overdriven a staple or damaged a cable since. The yellow side is plenty hard enough to drive the nails on new work wallcases as well.
 
Used to have electricians put what we called a Michigan Loop in NM wire before entering box. It was extra wire between the last staple and the box that could be pulled into the box if the drywallers cut up the wiring will cutting out for the outlet. Normally about 4" of extra wire in the loop. Never twisted around the cable as shown. As an inspector, I would definitely look at the rest of the wiring twice as hard as normal, but not sure I would cite it as any type of violation.
 
At the risk of starting a firestorm. I never saw the use in having to staple romex as much as we're supposed to anyway. To me it makes it more prone to being pierced by a nail or something since it cant move out of the way, plus , it makes it impossible to use the existing romex to pull in a new one should it happened to get damaged since its stapled so much..... but that's just me.

JAP>
 
jap said:
At the risk of starting a firestorm. I never saw the use in having to staple romex as much as we're supposed to anyway. To me it makes it more prone to being pierced by a nail or something since it cant move out of the way, plus ,
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Not just you, I agree with that.
 
jap said:
At the risk of starting a firestorm. I never saw the use in having to staple romex as much as we're supposed to anyway. To me it makes it more prone to being pierced by a nail or something since it cant move out of the way, plus , it makes it impossible to use the existing romex to pull in a new one should it happened to get damaged since its stapled so much..... but that's just me.

JAP>
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I agree. Super neat romex work is highly overrated. Less stapling is more better.
 
102 Inspector said:
Used to have electricians put what we called a Michigan Loop in NM wire before entering box. It was extra wire between the last staple and the box that could be pulled into the box if the drywallers cut up the wiring will cutting out for the outlet. Normally about 4" of extra wire in the loop. Never twisted around the cable as shown. As an inspector, I would definitely look at the rest of the wiring twice as hard as normal, but not sure I would cite it as any type of violation.
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When I used to do more residential work - especially housing rehabilitation projects I often used old cable to pull in new cable to existing openings - doesn't work when the old is stapled.

If you can keep the cable from getting sandwiched between framing member and wall covering I honestly don't see the need for any additional support either.
 
kwired said:
When I used to do more residential work - especially housing rehabilitation projects I often used old cable to pull in new cable to existing openings - doesn't work when the old is stapled.

If you can keep the cable from getting sandwiched between framing member and wall covering I honestly don't see the need for any additional support either.
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I will add to this that when working in older farm houses that were wired when the Rural Electrification Act was main driving factor for them being wired - most concealed wiring was fished in at the time and is easy to use for fishing in newer wiring.
 
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