lost for words

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Re: lost for words

Here is a twist.
In a two wire circuit, where a receptacle is fed with a black and a white conductor, most people will call the white conductor a neutral. It is not a neutral, it is the grounded conductor and it completes the circuit.
The definition of a neutral conductor is not as easy as one would think, do a search of this and other forums and you will see the differences expressed as to what will make a good definition of the neutral conductor.
In Ed's diagrams, diagram A is a two wire circuit with a grounded conductor. Diagram B shows a neutral conductor.

Pierre
 
Re: lost for words

Originally posted by roger: A "neutral" conductor does nothing. It doesn't play a part whatsoever in a circuit.
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Sorry, but I can?t agree with this statement. Part of my reason comes from the difference between technical language and conversational language. In a single phase, two wire circuit (ignore the EGC in this discussion), the two wires can be technically and accurately described as the ?ungrounded? and ?grounded.? In conversational language, they are frequently called (in order) ?hot? and ?neutral.? In this context, the neutral carries every bit of the current that the hot carries.

But my main reason relates to a three phase circuit, in which the neutral plays a very important role. If the current is not balanced between the three phases, then the neutral will carry some current. If the neutral were not present, then the imbalanced phase currents would be different, as would the voltages in the three phases.
 
Re: lost for words

LAYMENS TERMS

The "electrons" leave the silver terminal on a receptacle and head back to the service panel on the white wire.They travel up the service drop to the white bucket looking thing called a transformer and begin a new life as they head back to the house on a black wire.

Its a simple explanation for a homeowner.No need to pretend were all physics experts.
 
Re: lost for words

All these references to "return", "negative", "back to the service panel on the white wire" etc. seem to forget we are not talking about DC power.

AC power has no real direction it heads one way as much as the other way. :D

Charlie B. If the neutral is carrying current it is not really "neutral" any more. ;)

For laymen I would not go into any more than the white wire is one of the circuit conductors that happens to be grounded. Heck, that is all I need to know about it too. :p
 
Re: lost for words

I like giving the homeowner or paying customer info. I just start talking about it because I like the subject. No directions on how to do things just simple theory. Then after about 5 minutes they get a glazed look in thier eye and I stop. This gives them satisfaction that I am not treating them like a child, and I am willing to give information not hide it. They usually end up with "Its over my head", but they usually respect it more. I like to add in some horror stories to let them know there is a dangerous potential afoot. Most people only want to have some attention paid to them so they feel like they are part of the world. Just my opinion.
 
Re: lost for words

Charlie b, as Iwire said, if the conductor is carrying current it is not neutral.


In perfect balance (ha) it does nothing in any edison circuit be it center tapped single winding or center of a wye configuration of windings.

Roger
 
Re: lost for words

To Bob (iwire) and Roger: ?That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.? (Some guy named Bill something)

The thing that we call a ?neutral,? even though we use that term in an imprecise and conversational manner, would still retain the name ?neutral,? even if it were to lose its neutrality (e.g., by virtue of its carrying current). Put a clamp-on ammeter around the neutral wire. If you read zero amps, the wire is still called a ?neutral.? If you read twenty or fifty or two hundred amps, the wire is still called a ?neutral.?

But let?s be more precise: Put a clamp-on ammeter around the grounded conductor. If you read zero amps, the wire is still called a ?grounded conductor.? If you read twenty or fifty or two hundred amps, the wire is still called a ?grounded conductor.?

My code reference is 220.22. That article makes use of the term ?neutral,? and gives us a method of calculating its ?load.?
 
Re: lost for words

Charlie b, I agree with you.

As tradesmen we use the trade slang "neutral" to define these conductors you described, and we all understand what conductor we are refering to.


But, If any of these conductors you described would read zero where the other conductors that share this conductor as a common were to have identicle readings above zero, the "neutral" conductor could be removed without affecting the circuit loads. So, when one of the described conductors are truly "neutral" it is doing nothing for the circuit. :D

Roger

[ February 12, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
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