Lotus flickering LED lights

[cburke1111]

I have about 13 Lotus LED lights that are flickering every 6 seconds.

I have been trying to find a way to stop them from flickering. Today I was talking to another electrical contractor and he said he has added an incandescent light above the drop ceiling to stop them from flickering. Has anyone else tried this?

I thought about changing the brand of LED lights but I do not know if that is going to fix the problem either.

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[gar]

181114-1130 EST

cburke1111:

You have not defined your circuit.

Take one of your bulbs that is flickering and bench test it.

Then take all of the bulbs connected in parallel on your bench and test them.

Any flicker?

What is different on the bench as compared to the field installation?

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[sameguy]

Need better heat sink.

 

[gar]

181115-1325 EST

sameguy:

So far we know nothing about his circuit or how the LEDs were installed. Heat sinking of some sort might be a solution, but on what basis do you make this suggestion?.

What is to be better heat sunk than whatever is done now? What is your experience with this problem? Does it have something to do with Lotus devices, or is it a general statement?

.

 

[tw1156]

I have about 13 Lotus LED lights that are flickering every 6 seconds.

I have been trying to find a way to stop them from flickering. Today I was talking to another electrical contractor and he said he has added an incandescent light above the drop ceiling to stop them from flickering. Has anyone else tried this?

I thought about changing the brand of LED lights but I do not know if that is going to fix the problem either.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

This is/was a fairly common problem with LED drivers and not being compatible with certain dimmers; can you confirm if these lights are on a dimming switch or dimming panel? Lotus' website has a dimming compatible list; check this list and let us know: https://www.lotusledlights.com/resources/LOTUS-LED-LIGHTS-DIMMER-LIST.pdf

 

[cburke1111]

I started out with No dimmer at all. Then added I added a dimmer (Lutron Diva CL) and it helped with the flickering.

This is/was a fairly common problem with LED drivers and not being compatible with certain dimmers; can you confirm if these lights are on a dimming switch or dimming panel? Lotus' website has a dimming compatible list; check this list and let us know: https://www.lotusledlights.com/resources/LOTUS-LED-LIGHTS-DIMMER-LIST.pdf

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[gar]

181114-1533 EST

cburke1111:

If your lights flicker with no dimmer, then you need to do some bench testing with a single fixture. But before that measure the AC voltage to the fixtures near one that is flickering. Is the voltage abnormal or fluctuating?

On the bench use a Variac to see if flicker is a function of supply voltage.

On the bench at the supply voltage you measured in the field use a heat lamp, 250 W, or hair dryer to heat the fixture and see if you can stimulate flickering.

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[tw1156]

I started out with No dimmer at all. Then added I added a dimmer (Lutron Diva CL) and it helped with the flickering.


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That's interesting; in my experience the issue is when a dimmer is in play that is not compatible with the LED luminaire. So is there any issue left? To answer your original question, I have observed that adding an incandescent/halogen, or by keeping one on the same circuit mitigates the issue. This isn't the scientific answer as to why it occurs, but an observed solution to the problem when using a dimming system that may not be compliant with your luminaire. Gar appears to have a much better understanding of testing methods that could/should be explored for our own educational benefit, but this is as far as I can assist.

 

[cburke1111]

Thank you

That's interesting; in my experience the issue is when a dimmer is in play that is not compatible with the LED luminaire. So is there any issue left? To answer your original question, I have observed that adding an incandescent/halogen, or by keeping one on the same circuit mitigates the issue. This isn't the scientific answer as to why it occurs, but an observed solution to the problem when using a dimming system that may not be compliant with your luminaire. Gar appears to have a much better understanding of testing methods that could/should be explored for our own educational benefit, but this is as far as I can assist.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[cburke1111]

I will have to try the bench test.

I did test the voltage and it was normal.

181114-1533 EST

cburke1111:

If your lights flicker with no dimmer, then you need to do some bench testing with a single fixture. But before that measure the AC voltage to the fixtures near one that is flickering. Is the voltage abnormal or fluctuating?

On the bench use a Variac to see if flicker is a function of supply voltage.

On the bench at the supply voltage you measured in the field use a heat lamp, 250 W, or hair dryer to heat the fixture and see if you can stimulate flickering.

.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[gar]

181114-1720 EST

cburke1111:

The goal of the bench testing is to see if under some controlled, but variable conditions, you can simulate the same condition you see in the field.

You may not have a Variac. There are various ways you can do some voltage adjustment, but not as good as with a Variac.

The heating test will be the easiest, and quite variable (simply vary the distance of a hair dryer from the item being tested). Typical hair dryers are about 180 F just at the end of the tube. Heat guns are much hotter at the end, possibly 700 F.

Incandescent bulbs are nice resistors, but resistance varies greatly with current. A 1500 W space heater is a fairly constant resistance of around 10 ohms. You could create a voltage divider with a series heater from AC hot to your load, then use various wattage bulbs as a shunt across the load to adjust load voltage. At 120 V a 100 W bulb is about 144 ohms, etc.

A resistive divider like this only allows lowering voltage. Most Variacs are tapped so output can be varied from 0 to 140 V from a 120 input.

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[sameguy]

General statement, but dissipation of heat is number one. I haven't used the fixture but have used $1xxx.xx led fixtures in plant environments and have seen flickering until death. Before sending them back for credit took them apart to see the heat transfer tape had failed and the driver fell off the fixture,which is a big heat sink.
Hard Cree led lamps fail due to ? heat as the Replacements, different brand are still working in the same fixture.
As you said need more info., but heat has to be the number one killer.

 

[gar]

181115-0952 EST

sameguy:

Looking back at post #1 and seeing the 6 second comment I am in agreement with you that it is a thermal problem and implies defective lights.

The word flicker was an incorrect description of the problem.

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[sameguy]

No problem, I too misread as it isn't really my problem and more than likely multitasking.
LED lighting kind of like the start of the electronic ballast years ago.