low voltage in same hole
- Thread starter difowler1
- Start date
- Status
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
There's not one, it's just a preference.
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Unless the low voltage is power-limited; then it's got to be separated by a barrier or at least 2".
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If you have two cables in the same hole then no separation is required. The 2" dimension does not apply to power and "low voltage" cables.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Unless there is some reason that the plumbing can damage the cable it shouldn't be a problem.
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
Please see 725.136 (NEC 2011) Separation from Electric Light, Power, Class 1,
Non-Power-Limited Fire Alarm Circuit Conductors, and
Medium-Power Network-Powered Broadband Communications Cables
Look at (I). The OP's description of this "installation" doesn't appear to meet any of the exceptions (B) through (H). And before you jump on the liberal use of the word "conductors" in this section, note that (A) says "Cables and conductors..."
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
When I here "conductors" I automatically think of THHN, MTW, XXHW etc usually contained in a raceway of some sort. The word "cables" makes me think of Romex, cat 5, speaker wire etc. So In my opinion conductors & cables although similar are not the same thing. It is standard practice here to keep the two separated whether required or not.
Last edited:
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
What I'm saying is that the NEC is applying this criterion to BOTH cables and conductors.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
It's true that the word "penetration" is absent, and it's presence would have nullified your objection. However, if you had a room in commercial construction (say) and you ran Class 1 and 2 or 3 through those punch-outs in the aluminum stud for a hundred feet or so, I'd opine that you've violated the intent of the section, if not the wording.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I don't see that running a class 2 or a communications cable in close proximity to a 12-2 NM cable will have significantly difference in performance or safety then same LV/communication cable run same distance away from a pair of 12 AWG conductors enclosed in a PVC raceway. Many communications cables are either shielded or at least twisted pairs and that eliminates most interference that matters anyway.
Both the NM cable (as well as all other "power cables") and the Cl2 or communication cable are listed for stand alone installation (not required to be in a raceway). Type of occupancy or other situations may not allow some cables, but that is a whole different issue.
Some LV or communications equipment may recommend or even require more separation from lighting and power circuits/cables, but that is design issues beyond code minimums.
Both the NM cable (as well as all other "power cables") and the Cl2 or communication cable are listed for stand alone installation (not required to be in a raceway). Type of occupancy or other situations may not allow some cables, but that is a whole different issue.
Some LV or communications equipment may recommend or even require more separation from lighting and power circuits/cables, but that is design issues beyond code minimums.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
Here you go:
note this is for article 800 communication circuits. The term "low voltage" is pretty vague. Also note there is an exception for most common cables assemblies which basically makes the exception the rule and the rule the exception.....
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
800.133 (A)(2) Other Applications. Communications wires and cables
shall be separated at least 50 mm (2 in.) from conductors of
any electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire
alarm, or medium-power network-powered broadband
communications circuits.
Exception No. 1: Where either (i) all of the conductors (~l
the electric light, powel; Class i, non-power-limited fire
alarm, and mediw11.-power network-pmvered broadband
communications circuits are in a raceway or in metal-
sheathed, metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type AC, or
Type UF cables, or (2) oll of the conductors ql communi-
catiolls circuits are encased in raceway.
This is repeated in 820.133 , 830.133 (840.133 refers to 770.133) , etc etc.....
~RJ~
shall be separated at least 50 mm (2 in.) from conductors of
any electric light, power, Class 1, non-power-limited fire
alarm, or medium-power network-powered broadband
communications circuits.
Exception No. 1: Where either (i) all of the conductors (~l
the electric light, powel; Class i, non-power-limited fire
alarm, and mediw11.-power network-pmvered broadband
communications circuits are in a raceway or in metal-
sheathed, metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type AC, or
Type UF cables, or (2) oll of the conductors ql communi-
catiolls circuits are encased in raceway.
This is repeated in 820.133 , 830.133 (840.133 refers to 770.133) , etc etc.....
~RJ~
class types
class types
are the wire and cable classes listed in one place in the code book.
I was saying "low voltage" wires. The wires installed through the same holes are coaxial, cat5, cat6, a red alarm wire, and a blue (I imagine) security wire.
class types
are the wire and cable classes listed in one place in the code book.
I was saying "low voltage" wires. The wires installed through the same holes are coaxial, cat5, cat6, a red alarm wire, and a blue (I imagine) security wire.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Standard practice but not a code requirement - code is concerned with fire and shock, not if there is interference on the telephone or computer
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
But 800.133 is for wires and cables attached to the outside of the building,
800.133 (A)(2) is for inside, separation for conductors not cables.
If you can accept that a cat 5 cable can run along side a RMC, then a cat 5 cable is allowed along side a NM cable. the NM and RMC are both chapter 3 wiring methods
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
For control wiring see art 725, for communications see art 800, most anything else is "power wiring".
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