Lug - Max. Wire Size Accepted?

[anbm]

I have showed (2) sets of 600kcmil on my design to a chiller, contractor said the max. lug size at chiller is #500kcm and he already run the wire, what can we do to resolve this issue? Do they make a sub-lug to we can change from #600kcm to #500kcm lug at final termination points? Thanks!

Andy

 

[roger]

See the links below, there are other manufactures too.

http://ebusiness.ilsco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=1&categoryId=76

http://ebusiness.ilsco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=1&categoryId=104

Roger

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I have showed (2) sets of 600kcmil on my design to a chiller, contractor said the max. lug size at chiller is #500kcm and he already run the wire, what can we do to resolve this issue? Do they make a sub-lug to we can change from #600kcm to #500kcm lug at final termination points? Thanks!

Andy

1. Did the contractor have the prints to refer to before he installed the 500's? If so, why did he not refer this issue to you before he installed the conductors.

2. What is the load of the equipment? Is there a voltage drop issue you are concerned about?

Did the contractor bid the work at 600s and install 500s? If so, and you can live with the 500s, ask for a credit for the customer.

Otherwise all is moot if you follow Roger's links.

 

[cschmid]

pierre after reading this I got that the contactor was rated for 500 kcmil and they ran the 600 kcmil that was specec..Now wire is to big for lug..

 

[infinity]

Can't the lugs at the chiller be changed to the proper size?

 

[qcroanoke]

Can't the lugs at the chiller be changed to the proper size?

Yes, but technically, you will be voiding the U.L. listing if the chiller has not been tested with 600 kcmil lugs. You could also be getting close on the
required clearances between phases. I would think 600 kcmil lugs are larger than 500 kcmil lugs.

 

[cschmid]

Heres the real kicker is we don't know because of lack of info..but I never thought about the clearances on the new lug size in the chiller..I would think this an easy mountain to climb though..I have a question you call up manufacturer and tell them your quest and they send you the upgrade kit..does that modification bought from the manufacturer still make the chiller out of UL specs?? How do equipment manufacturers deal with the UL listing when they have one product tested and manufacture thousands then change a component manufacturer due to cost??

 

[augie47]

offset pins

offset pins

Providing there is adequate clearnace, would the offset pins suggested by Roger not be a valid solution ?

 

[jim dungar]

Yes, but technically, you will be voiding the U.L. listing ...

Do you have this in writing from UL?
It is a common myth that any field modification automatically violates a UL Listing. According to the UL website even they can not immediately say that a field modification adversely impacts the use of the listed equipment. UL does say that a field modification does not change the listing of the product as that is an indication of how it left the factory.

Three things an AHJ should at least consider when evaluating non-OEM lugs:
Is the wire bending space maintained?
Are the physical clearances maintained?
Does the new wire size adversely affect the heat transfer of the equipment.

 

[roger]

Providing there is adequate clearnace, would the offset pins suggested by Roger not be a valid solution ?

Augie, yes they would and come in very handy when conductors are upsized for VD.

The problem with this solution is it was post # 2 and made for to short of a thread. :wink:

Roger

 

[Jraef]

Without knowing the contactor mfr. it's impossible to tell for sure, but here are some generalizations:

Contactors must be listed with lugs for the reasons mentioned above.

MOST contactors are also tested and listed for "busbar" connection, which usually also includes acceptability for using compression lugs with industry standard bolted 1-hole connection tangs, because the width of the tang is generally considered to be the same as a similar busbar that would be appropriate for the current rating of the contactor. NEMA is the standard used in North America.

If you are going to crimp anything onto those cables, I would just crimp on some lugs, then jettison the mechanical lug on the contactor and bolt directly to whatever the contactor's lugs were connected to. Using the Ilsco offset adapters would be necessary only if the mechanical lugs on the contactor cannot be removed, which is unlikely.

 

[qcroanoke]

I have a question you call up manufacturer and tell them your quest and they send you the upgrade kit..does that modification bought from the manufacturer still make the chiller out of UL specs??


How do equipment manufacturers deal with the UL listing when they have one product tested and manufacture thousands then change a component manufacturer due to cost??

No,at least I wouldn't think so.
A lot of breaker manufacturers have them listed with several different size lugs.You just have to order them.


They get it re-tested or they say nothing and wait for UL to pick up on it.
(I'll probably catch grief for that)^^

Let me say that I don't have a problem with field modifications to equipment,
as long as it's safe! I wouldn't have a problem with changing out the lugs on the chiller,but some inspectors would. JMO

 

[augie47]

Augie, yes they would and come in very handy when conductors are upsized for VD.

The problem with this solution is it was post # 2 and made for to short of a thread. :wink:

Roger

sometimes I forget the "rules" :grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Augie, yes they would and come in very handy when conductors are upsized for VD.

The problem with this solution is it was post # 2 and made for to short of a thread. :wink:

Roger

Now I see the light...Roger is the new Chief Moderator and he is instilling the "SHORT THREAD ACT of '08" a little early. That would be like inspecting to the '08 NEC in '07... :grin:

 

[quogueelectric]

can you use

can you use

Compact conductors and keep everyone happy. They are expensive but if the engineer wants it badly enough let the customer pay through the nose for it or change over to a splice box or terminal strip just prior to termination.

 

[jrannis]

Ive had the same situation. Lately we have had to look real close to see but the 500mcm and the 600mcm lugs are the same physical OD size.
We just did a job with compact conductors (Aluminum) and the offset pin connectors. View attachment 1096

 

[kingpb]

Augie, yes they would and come in very handy when conductors are upsized for VD.

The problem with this solution is it was post # 2 and made for to short of a thread. :wink:

Roger

The post should have stopped at #2, but I'm trying to get to 1000, so what the heck:grin:

 

[quogueelectric]

I love when engineers buck the mfgs direction

I love when engineers buck the mfgs direction

Because they just bought ALL of the liability when things go wrong. You gotta love it when you watch them try to squirm out of thier demands.

 

[jerm]

I agree. This thread is still too short.

http://ebusiness.ilsco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=1&categoryId=76

http://ebusiness.ilsco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=1&categoryId=104

So, if you don't have one, you also have to buy one of the ilsco crimp tools and proper die. How much do *those* cost? I wonder if burndy makes these? (We only have burndy crimpers. I finally got a new set of O dies for my MD6 on Friday. Crimping 179's with a BG hole leaves you with sore arms and bruises on your legs.)