Luminary cable without the MC

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onewaymj

Member
Location
Foothill Ranch, CA USA
Sourcery LLC is a UL certified wire processing facility. I'm being asked to parallel power and control on a reel to be used as Luminary Cable that will be installed in conduit.

10 THHN STR Black
10 THHN STR Red
10 THHN STR Green
16 TFN Purple / Gray Twisted

Will this meet code? We have many contractors asking for this product.

Thank you.
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
No. If I can't pull those conductors through conduit off separate reels, what makes you think putting them together on one reel and selling it to me makes it any different?

Now, if you could come up with a product like luminary cable but without the armor and get it listed you would have something.

-Hal
 
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GoldDigger

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Location
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Retired PV System Designer
There is also an argument that if you put just the 16TFN twisted pair inside a jacket that would allow it to be used without a raceway as an NM family product, that can then be pulled into a raceway along with the individual THHN wires, making the result in conduit comparable in principle to luminary cable. But without a combined listing some (or most?) AHJs may not allow it.
No doubt whatever in my mind that just pulling the combination into a raceway, regardless of how it was reeled, does not comply unless the control circuit can be (and is) reclassified to Class 1.
If the reclassification can be done, then the bundle you would supply on one reel could be practical.
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
infinity said:
Is this product similar to Anixter’s Speepull or Quik-Pull? We use Quik-pull products quite often and custom order any configuration that we need.
Click to expand...

Sure, done that too. As long as you use all the conductors as allowed by Code. If you use a couple for a CL2 circuit that would be a violation.

-Hal
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
GoldDigger said:
There is also an argument that if you put just the 16TFN twisted pair inside a jacket that would allow it to be used without a raceway as an NM family product, that can then be pulled into a raceway along with the individual THHN wires, making the result in conduit comparable in principle to luminary cable. But without a combined listing some (or most?) AHJs may not allow it.
Click to expand...

OP should look into that. Would be a moneymaker for sure.

-Hal
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
onewaymj said:
Sourcery LLC is a UL certified wire processing facility. I'm being asked to parallel power and control on a reel to be used as Luminary Cable that will be installed in conduit.

10 THHN STR Black
10 THHN STR Red
10 THHN STR Green
16 TFN Purple / Gray Twisted

Will this meet code? We have many contractors asking for this product.

Thank you.
Click to expand...


Not that it's a code thing, but, most LED fixtures with 0-10v dimming ballasts are 120v.

Meaning a grounded conductor is required.

Most times that would require a defined grounded conductor color such as white, gray.

I'd be sure double check the color scheme with them before I produced too much of this awkward combination of colors.




JAP>
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
jap said:
Not that it's a code thing, but, most LED fixtures with 0-10v dimming ballasts are 120v.

Meaning a grounded conductor is required.

Most times that would require a defined grounded conductor color such as white, gray.

I'd be sure double check the color scheme with them before I produced too much of this awkward combination of colors.


JAP>
Click to expand...

I think the OP was just giving us an example of request he received from a contractor. Everything they do is custom and it's up to the customer as to how they use it.

-Hal
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
jap said:
Not that it's a code thing, but, most LED fixtures with 0-10v dimming ballasts are 120v.

Meaning a grounded conductor is required.

Most times that would require a defined grounded conductor color such as white, gray.

I'd be sure double check the color scheme with them before I produced too much of this awkward combination of colors.




JAP>
Click to expand...

jap said:
Yes.

Just odd there wasn't a neutral color conductor mentioned.

Jap>
Click to expand...

I agree, whether it's a 120 or 277 volt system either one would require a neutral conductor so one conductor would need to identified as a neutral. It would be less likely that the circuits are 240 or 208 volts and not requiring a neutral.
 
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
onewaymj said:
Sourcery LLC is a UL certified wire processing facility. I'm being asked to parallel power and control on a reel to be used as Luminary Cable that will be installed in conduit.

10 THHN STR Black
10 THHN STR Red
10 THHN STR Green
16 TFN Purple / Gray Twisted

Will this meet code? We have many contractors asking for this product.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

You mean TFFN like this:

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/...duct-specifications/hec/hea/8854083469342.pdf

Sounds fine to me, except I would use 'TFFN' to keep everything 90C rated.
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Responding to Tortuga.

He needs to read what GoldDigger said:

GoldDigger said:
There is also an argument that if you put just the 16TFN twisted pair inside a jacket that would allow it to be used without a raceway as an NM family product, that can then be pulled into a raceway along with the individual THHN wires, making the result in conduit comparable in principle to luminary cable. But without a combined listing some (or most?) AHJs may not allow it.
No doubt whatever in my mind that just pulling the combination into a raceway, regardless of how it was reeled, does not comply unless the control circuit can be (and is) reclassified to Class 1.
If the reclassification can be done, then the bundle you would supply on one reel could be practical.
Click to expand...

-Hal
 
O

onewaymj

Member
Location
Foothill Ranch, CA USA
hbiss said:
No. If I can't pull those conductors through conduit off separate reels, what makes you think putting them together on one reel and selling it to me makes it any different?

Now, if you could come up with a product like luminary cable but without the armor and get it listed you would have something.

-Hal
Click to expand...
Isn't Luminary MC with the required wires (2 power wires + 2 control wires (16 TFN solid) the same as installing the wires in conduit? I know that the ballast and control module also need to be rated Class 1. The branch circuit power and the 16 TFN control wires are listed 600V. We could also add a ground as required.
 
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