Luminary cable without the MC

onewaymj

New member
Sourcery LLC is a UL certified wire processing facility. I'm being asked to parallel power and control on a reel to be used as Luminary Cable that will be installed in conduit.

10 THHN STR Black
10 THHN STR Red
10 THHN STR Green
16 TFN Purple / Gray Twisted

Will this meet code? We have many contractors asking for this product.

Thank you.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
No. If I can't pull those conductors through conduit off separate reels, what makes you think putting them together on one reel and selling it to me makes it any different?

Now, if you could come up with a product like luminary cable but without the armor and get it listed you would have something.

-Hal
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
There is also an argument that if you put just the 16TFN twisted pair inside a jacket that would allow it to be used without a raceway as an NM family product, that can then be pulled into a raceway along with the individual THHN wires, making the result in conduit comparable in principle to luminary cable. But without a combined listing some (or most?) AHJs may not allow it.
No doubt whatever in my mind that just pulling the combination into a raceway, regardless of how it was reeled, does not comply unless the control circuit can be (and is) reclassified to Class 1.
If the reclassification can be done, then the bundle you would supply on one reel could be practical.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Is this product similar to Anixter’s Speepull or Quik-Pull? We use Quik-pull products quite often and custom order any configuration that we need.
Sure, done that too. As long as you use all the conductors as allowed by Code. If you use a couple for a CL2 circuit that would be a violation.

-Hal
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
There is also an argument that if you put just the 16TFN twisted pair inside a jacket that would allow it to be used without a raceway as an NM family product, that can then be pulled into a raceway along with the individual THHN wires, making the result in conduit comparable in principle to luminary cable. But without a combined listing some (or most?) AHJs may not allow it.
OP should look into that. Would be a moneymaker for sure.

-Hal
 

jap

Senior Member
Sourcery LLC is a UL certified wire processing facility. I'm being asked to parallel power and control on a reel to be used as Luminary Cable that will be installed in conduit.

10 THHN STR Black
10 THHN STR Red
10 THHN STR Green

16 TFN Purple / Gray Twisted

Will this meet code? We have many contractors asking for this product.

Thank you.

Not that it's a code thing, but, most LED fixtures with 0-10v dimming ballasts are 120v.

Meaning a grounded conductor is required.

Most times that would require a defined grounded conductor color such as white, gray.

I'd be sure double check the color scheme with them before I produced too much of this awkward combination of colors.




JAP>
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Not that it's a code thing, but, most LED fixtures with 0-10v dimming ballasts are 120v.

Meaning a grounded conductor is required.

Most times that would require a defined grounded conductor color such as white, gray.

I'd be sure double check the color scheme with them before I produced too much of this awkward combination of colors.


JAP>
I think the OP was just giving us an example of request he received from a contractor. Everything they do is custom and it's up to the customer as to how they use it.

-Hal
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Not that it's a code thing, but, most LED fixtures with 0-10v dimming ballasts are 120v.

Meaning a grounded conductor is required.

Most times that would require a defined grounded conductor color such as white, gray.

I'd be sure double check the color scheme with them before I produced too much of this awkward combination of colors.




JAP>
Yes.

Just odd there wasn't a neutral color conductor mentioned.

Jap>
I agree, whether it's a 120 or 277 volt system either one would require a neutral conductor so one conductor would need to identified as a neutral. It would be less likely that the circuits are 240 or 208 volts and not requiring a neutral.
 

tortuga

Senior Member
Location
(44.057116, -123.103394)
Occupation
field supervisor
Sourcery LLC is a UL certified wire processing facility. I'm being asked to parallel power and control on a reel to be used as Luminary Cable that will be installed in conduit.

10 THHN STR Black
10 THHN STR Red
10 THHN STR Green
16 TFN Purple / Gray Twisted

Will this meet code? We have many contractors asking for this product.

Thank you.
You mean TFFN like this:

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/sys_master/product-specifications/product-specifications/hec/hea/8854083469342.pdf

Sounds fine to me, except I would use 'TFFN' to keep everything 90C rated.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Responding to Tortuga.

He needs to read what GoldDigger said:

There is also an argument that if you put just the 16TFN twisted pair inside a jacket that would allow it to be used without a raceway as an NM family product, that can then be pulled into a raceway along with the individual THHN wires, making the result in conduit comparable in principle to luminary cable. But without a combined listing some (or most?) AHJs may not allow it.
No doubt whatever in my mind that just pulling the combination into a raceway, regardless of how it was reeled, does not comply unless the control circuit can be (and is) reclassified to Class 1.
If the reclassification can be done, then the bundle you would supply on one reel could be practical.
-Hal
 
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