Lutron C.L dimmer

I'm using a Lutron dimmer, TGCL-153PR-WH 120V single pole or 3-way. Works great in the single pole set up but in the 3-way setup there is a slight delay when you flip the switch and when the lights come on (less than a second). It is not overloaded, using incandescent bulbs, and when I take the dimmer out and put in a 3-way switch, no delay. Anyone have any ideas on how to correct?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
It is communications between the units and processing delays deliberately built into the processing. It seems to be happening more and more these days.
I do not know any way to avoid it either.

Tapatalk!
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
I'm using a Lutron dimmer, TGCL-153PR-WH 120V single pole or 3-way. Works great in the single pole set up but in the 3-way setup there is a slight delay when you flip the switch and when the lights come on (less than a second). It is not overloaded, using incandescent bulbs, and when I take the dimmer out and put in a 3-way switch, no delay. Anyone have any ideas on how to correct?
Are you using a regular 3-way switch on the other end or the companion switch for the dimmer?
I think if the latter, it's the time taken for communication between the units.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Why are you using a CL dimmer with incandescent lights?
The Lutron CL is a single dimmer solution to dimming incandescent, halogen, dimmable CFLs and dimmable LEDs. . . so why not? If one has light fixtures with the plain old Edison screw socket, one can have a wider selection of lighting types and not have to replace the dimmer itself.

I agree with GoldDigger that this is a deliberate delay created by the Lutron CL circuitry as, upon turn on, it interrogates its connected load, to the extent that it is designed to do, and then configures itself to supply that load.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The Lutron CL is a single dimmer solution to dimming incandescent, halogen, dimmable CFLs and dimmable LEDs. . . so why not? If one has light fixtures with the plain old Edison screw socket, one can have a wider selection of lighting types and not have to replace the dimmer itself.

I agree with GoldDigger that this is a deliberate delay created by the Lutron CL circuitry as, upon turn on, it interrogates its connected load, to the extent that it is designed to do, and then configures itself to supply that load.

CL dimmers are mostly for LED and CFL dimming so why pay more for a dimmer when the ariadni dimmer works well. I would bet if you changed the dimmer the delay will go away as stated. So again I ask --- why use a CL-- the reason not to is cost and the issue with delay so why use it?
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
CL dimmers are mostly for LED and CFL dimming so why pay more for a dimmer when the ariadni dimmer works well. I would bet if you changed the dimmer the delay will go away as stated. So again I ask --- why use a CL-- the reason not to is cost and the issue with delay so why use it?
Why? Because you can't buy an XX603Ps anymore. They don't distribute them, at least not here in PA. The XX600Ps is next on the list for being made obsolete.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
CL dimmers are mostly for LED and CFL dimming so why pay more for a dimmer when the ariadni dimmer works well. I would bet if you changed the dimmer the delay will go away as stated. So again I ask --- why use a CL-- the reason not to is cost and the issue with delay so why use it?
Asked and answered.

Let me try again. Lutron is very clear that one can mix and match different bulb types on a single dimmer. That is, a single dimmer can control, say, four luminaires, one with an incandescent lamp, one with a halogen lamp, one with a dimmable CFL and one with a dimmable LED, all running together at the same time.

In real life, my customer can spend a very small additional fee for a one time installation of a CL dimmer, and be as "future proof" as possible today, as we look at incandescent lamps being obsoleted, and CFLs giving way to LEDs as prices fall and new design features appear. My customer can stay with the lamps they presently have installed until they need replacement, using them up instead of throwing them away, AND can migrate to CFL and / or LED at will over the coming years without having to rehire an electrician to replace the dimmer every time. AND, with every retirement of an incandescent in the future with a replacement CFL or LED, operation costs fall and further future maintenance cost decreases.

If, Dennis, cost is a reason, then it is far cheaper to spend the additional few dollars to buy the CL dimmer over a nearly obsolete incandescent-only Ariadni.

Turn on delay is a matter of design acceptance. . . if the customer demands to have a light that is exactly like some other kind of light (non-delay incandescent), no matter what, then spend more money restricting yourself to incandescent-only with its high energy fees and dwindling bulb supplies. If you want to embrace an upwardly mobile path towards energy (and $$$) saving, and if you want to use a dimmer that is deliberately designed to not be less likely to need the additional cost of replacement because it is obsolete, then choose to install the "cheaper" CL dimmer.

I don't know about you, but I regularly hear comments of bewilderment from my customers about how hard it is to choose a lamp today. In my opinion, deliberately choosing a CL, or a CL-like dimmer (assuming other manufacturers offer the high level electronics at some point), is a strong positive attempt to return to the purchasing-simplicity of a world with only plain old incandescent lighting.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
I just installed 12 can lights on two switches. The customer had already bought halogen BR bulbs, so that's what I installed. When he was asking about dimmers and the features he wanted, the CL dimmer met what he wanted in features.

I told him I could get probably (very) close to what he wanted with a non CL dimmer but he said he was strongly considering LED in the future and wanted to go ahead with the CL even though it was a few dollars more.

So when/if he goes to LED he doesn't have to call me or another electrician. Just replace away!

Of course I should have tried harder to sell him the non CL so I could be called back!:angel:
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
I just installed 12 can lights on two switches. The customer had already bought halogen BR bulbs, so that's what I installed. When he was asking about dimmers and the features he wanted, the CL dimmer met what he wanted in features.

I told him I could get probably (very) close to what he wanted with a non CL dimmer but he said he was strongly considering LED in the future and wanted to go ahead with the CL even though it was a few dollars more.

So when/if he goes to LED he doesn't have to call me or another electrician. Just replace away!

Of course I should have tried harder to sell him the non CL so I could be called back!:angel:
I wish I could tell you it's that simple. I have seen enough LEDs that don't like CL dimmers to know that the CL dimmers are not a sure bet for future upgrades. Some LEDs have, in fact, worked better on the regular dimmers.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Some LEDs contain drivers which are specifically designed to work with "ordinary" phase shift dimmers as well as possibly other variations.
Others are designed to work only with their own "approved" dimmers.
Unfortunately it seems all too clear that both dimmers and LEDs undergo design changes after the compatibility lists are made, with no attempt to update the lists.


Tapatalk!
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Lutron will only guarantee their CL dimmers to work on the bulbs that they have tested. All I am saying is if the customer does not like the delay then install a standard dimmer. Why the dimmer is causing problems with an incandescent is a surprise to me. You can try a different bulb- never seen an incandescent have a delay unless it was low voltage. CFL's will often have delays.

There are only 2 things that can cause this issue- perhaps a bad CL dimmer or the bulb- unless the bulb is cfl I don't see how the bulb can be the culprit.

I have no issue with the use of CL if the customer wants it however I was trying to solve the issue at hand. I have a friend who only stocks the CL dimmers so he doesn't have to have too much stock in the truck. The trouble is on a service call people don't want to spend $30 for a dimmer
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
Lutron will only guarantee their CL dimmers to work on the bulbs that they have tested. All I am saying is if the customer does not like the delay then install a standard dimmer. Why the dimmer is causing problems with an incandescent is a surprise to me. You can try a different bulb- never seen an incandescent have a delay unless it was low voltage. CFL's will often have delays.

There are only 2 things that can cause this issue- perhaps a bad CL dimmer or the bulb- unless the bulb is cfl I don't see how the bulb can be the culprit.

I have no issue with the use of CL if the customer wants it however I was trying to solve the issue at hand. I have a friend who only stocks the CL dimmers so he doesn't have to have too much stock in the truck. The trouble is on a service call people don't want to spend $30 for a dimmer
Dennis, are you saying you can still buy AY-603P, DV-603P, S-603P etc.?
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Why the dimmer is causing problems with an incandescent is a surprise to me.
Let me try this another way. The "problem" is caused by us, the technical people talking with the client, in our thinking a microprocessor based CL dimmer turn on interrogation of it's load, a "boot up", if you will, is in fact aberrant behavior. When our customer says, "Why is there a delay?" and we take that as "I don't want it to be like this," we, as informed professionals, lose the opportunity to explain the microprocessor based configuration of the dimmer output to the bulb as a great benefit in this world of evolving lamps.

The CL dimmer is not a mechanical switch.

If I approach the little calculator app in my computer to add a string of numbers for my invoice, and I get pissed at waiting for the computer to boot up, I am deluding myself. A calculator in a computer is not a mechanical button and lever adding machine that is "always on" because it is only levers, rods and gears.

The delay in the CL dimmer is a "problem" only if we, the professionals, teach our customers that it is a problem. To so teach is accurate foot shooting.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Let me try this another way. The "problem" is caused by us, the technical people talking with the client, in our thinking a microprocessor based CL dimmer turn on interrogation of it's load, a "boot up", if you will, is in fact aberrant behavior. When our customer says, "Why is there a delay?" and we take that as "I don't want it to be like this," we, as informed professionals, lose the opportunity to explain the microprocessor based configuration of the dimmer output to the bulb as a great benefit in this world of evolving lamps.

The CL dimmer is not a mechanical switch.

If I approach the little calculator app in my computer to add a string of numbers for my invoice, and I get pissed at waiting for the computer to boot up, I am deluding myself. A calculator in a computer is not a mechanical button and lever adding machine that is "always on" because it is only levers, rods and gears.

The delay in the CL dimmer is a "problem" only if we, the professionals, teach our customers that it is a problem. To so teach is accurate foot shooting.
I buy that. LOL

I have used CL dimmers and have not noticed the delay but I may not have paid enough attention to it. I have no problem with the delay myself but some home owners can be silly about some issues.

I often explain to customers very simply-- It is what it is or that's the nature of the beast. They get used to it real fast.
 
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