Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

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schalliol

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I did a search here first and didn't see this posted, yet I saw people complaining about losing the ability to dim floor lamps, so here we go:

Basically 404.14(E) says that no longer are people allowed to dim general purpose receptacles. Leave it to Lutron to fix regulatory problems though, they released a receptacle that can only be used by a special matching plug. I talked to a Lutron tech this morning and he told me about a system they divised that has now been approved by UL for both commercial and residential use. Here's the catch, you have to re-wire the lamp you wish to plug into the outlet, but this satisfies the code requirements, as no one would wire an appliance up with this plug. Internally it works well for dimming too, as many receptacles (I'm told) do not:

Part Numbers
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NTR-15-DFDU - 15A Receptacle</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NTR-20-DFDU - 20A Receptacle</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">RP-FDU-10 - The Plug</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Lutron Dimmable Receptacle & Plug Specification Sheet
Lutron: Guide to dimming portable lamps via receptacles.

[ November 29, 2004, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: schalliol ]
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

The following is something easy to miss and needs to be complied with. :D

May I replace my current switched receptacle with the RFDU?
Yes, a full-duplex RFDU may replace a switched receptacle only when the receptacle is not a required receptacle necessary for compliance with the NEC?. Otherwise, you must gang the RFDU with a
standard receptacle or install the RFDU in a new location by itself.
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Originally posted by charlie:
The following is something easy to miss and needs to be complied with. :D

May I replace my current switched receptacle with the RFDU?
Yes, a full-duplex RFDU may replace a switched receptacle only when the receptacle is not a required receptacle necessary for compliance with the NEC?. Otherwise, you must gang the RFDU with a
standard receptacle or install the RFDU in a new location by itself.
Click to expand...
Thanks friend 55 miles to the North. I saw that too, interesting the way that it works within the code. By converting a receptacle to a "Lutron Lighting Attachment" you basically lose your receptacle.
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Nothing ground breaking here. What was there to keep you from using some other standard NEMA configuration like maybe a twist lock for this application? Could always be done but I don't think anybody wanted to go to the trouble. Only thing this really does is let people know that this is a way to dim portable lamps that is code compliant.

-Hal
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Originally posted by hbiss:
What was there to keep you from using some other standard NEMA configuration like maybe a twist lock for this application?
Click to expand...
Getting sued I suppose if you're one that puts in such system. Perhaps if you're a home owner, your insurance company arguing that an unknown fire was a result of a non-code issue. Lutron initially got commercial approval for this product and now has residential approval because of an incredible amount of regulatory investigation and actually a fair amount in R&D, I suppose if you don't feel it's valuable to have this application or don't care about code compliance, you wouldn't care, but many do.

[ November 29, 2004, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: schalliol ]
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

I've always disliked the switched receptacle and no lighting outlet routine. There are so many goofy things done in peoples homes to deal with this configuration in one way or another, very many of them unsafe.

I'm not particularly in favor of the NEC deciding everthing for us but at the same time this has always bugged me.
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

What do you do, clap five times for medium, ten for bright? :D :p
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

...Getting sued I suppose if you're one that puts in such system. Perhaps if you're a home owner, your insurance company arguing that an unknown fire was a result of a non-code issue.

How do you figure that? This is just as code compliant as what Lutron is pushing.

...Internally it works well for dimming too, as many receptacles (I'm told) do not

You were told wrong. No receptacle would have anything to do with the operation of a dimmer.

I think it's time to stop listening to reps with something to sell.

-Hal
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Originally posted by hbiss:
How do you figure that? This is just as code compliant as what Lutron is pushing.
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I don't see a loophole for another NEMA configuration, but I'm no lawyer.

Originally posted by hbiss:
You were told wrong. No receptacle would have anything to do with the operation of a dimmer.

I think it's time to stop listening to reps with something to sell.
Click to expand...
The tech support person I spoke with at Lutron said he gets many calls that result from a receptacle that doesn't function properly when dimmed. I doubt that he's flat-out lying about this. He even was very knowledgeable down to the thickness of lightbulb filament of particular bulbs, as it related to buzzing of bulbs when dimmed.
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

I don't really want to get into the argument but the receptacle thing is just plain stupid. If there's a problem with a receptacle you should replace it, not try to associate it with a dimmer. If there is something to it I dought it's important enough to make sure we use a Lutron combo package. :)
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

[/qb][/QUOTE]The tech support person I spoke with at Lutron said he gets many calls that result from a receptacle that doesn't function properly when dimmed. I doubt that he's flat-out lying about this. [/QB][/QUOTE]
What exactly was plugged into those receptacles? TV, Radio etc?
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

I don't see a loophole for another NEMA configuration, but I'm no lawyer.

You don't need to be a lawyer you just have to understand how the code is written. (If lawyers are involved it matters little what the code says anyway, it gets spun to their advantage whatever the situation.) Also know that there is no code requirement to abide by NEMA configurations.

I doubt that he's flat-out lying...

Oh certainly not, that's what we would call it! Salesmen call that puffery, it's kind of like artistic license. Either that and/or he has no idea what the heck he is talking about. :D

-Hal
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Hal have you looked at 404.14(E)?

404.14(E) Dimmer Switches. General-use dimmer switches shall be used only to control permanently installed incandescent luminaires (lighting fixtures) unless listed for the control of other loads and installed accordingly.
Click to expand...
What part of that will allow any NEMA receptical?
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

This sounds like another useless gizmo that will collect dust on the shelf of the supply store.

If I want to dim a table lamp, I'll stick with Lutron's $15 "Attache" dimmer that clips onto the cord.
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Nice product, but try to make a wall mounted command actuate that. This allows Spacer System and Grafik Eye, as well as other products dim the light source you have available.
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Scalliol, I could be completely off base and I mean no offence but I'm just going to ask. Are you selling this Lutron product?
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

Sam, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that.

schalliol,

This allows Spacer System and Grafik Eye, as well as other products dim the light source you have available.
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That's all well and good, but you have to convince people to spend some serious money to install those systems in the first place. I used to work in a supply store with a heavy residential business, and we were lucky if we sold 2 of those systems a year.


This is a solution to a "problem" that doesn't even exist.
 
Re: Lutron Fixes 404.14(E) Problems!

I don't work for lutron, nor do I sell their products or own any stock, or know anyone personally that works there. I just think that it's a good product...shoot me.
 
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